Discus Won't Take Non-bloodworm Food

[willjones]

Hello, this is my first post on this forum so be gentle!
Bought 4 small discus about 1 1/2" about 3 weeks ago (first purchase of discus) and put them in a 200 litre planted tank with my cardinals, corys and a bristlenose and algae eater.

They looked abit shell shocked at first, but seem to be getting happier, but as I alluded to in the title they frustratingly refuse to eat anything except for frozen bloodworm. It's especially frustrating as I saw the very same fish happily eating dried granules whilst in the shop! I've put my own very similar looking granules in the tank several times, and they take absolutely no notice. Tried waiting until they look really hungry, tried soaking the granules in water with bloodworm, tried garlic (!), still no luck. I also post on UKAPS, but it was suggested to me to try this site for advice.
Would appreciate any helpful suggestions, thanks, will.

 

[rocknurworld2006]

Hello, this is my first post on this forum so be gentle!
Bought 4 small discus about 1 1/2" about 3 weeks ago (first purchase of discus) and put them in a 200 litre planted tank with my cardinals, corys and a bristlenose and algae eater.

They looked abit shell shocked at first, but seem to be getting happier, but as I alluded to in the title they frustratingly refuse to eat anything except for frozen bloodworm. It's especially frustrating as I saw the very same fish happily eating dried granules whilst in the shop! I've put my own very similar looking granules in the tank several times, and they take absolutely no notice. Tried waiting until they look really hungry, tried soaking the granules in water with bloodworm, tried garlic (!), still no luck. I also post on UKAPS, but it was suggested to me to try this site for advice.
Would appreciate any helpful suggestions, thanks, will.

what are ur water stats?

 

[petertr]

Feed them very sparingly for the first couple of weeks.

I think you have the same strain as me - mine didn't come away from the bottom of the tank for about 4 days. Didn't start eating Tetra Prima (which is what they were fed with in the shop) for about 2 weeks.


Let them settle in, don't worry about them.




By the way, is it safe to put neons in with Discus - I thought they carried a lot of diseases?

 

[Goodygumdrops]

Hey Will!You found it (recognise those swords and have found out what kind they are!!)Good luck with the fish

 

[Davo86]

Hi Will,
a few more answers are needed to give you a better idea as to why they aren't eating,

how long have you had the Discus for?
Also how long has the tank been setup for?
can you post any water stats?

It's a good sign that the fish are eating, (even if it is only bloodworm) so i wouldn't worry too much atm

 

[rabbut]

1+1/2 inch discus as your first Discus. Someone felt like doing lots of work for very small cost savings, or dived in at the deep end with an "advanced" species before researching them

Normaly issues with a group of 4 at that size is usualy down to stressed, though if they are eating and not jet black, this isn't too much of an immediate issue. As above, there are a few questions we need answered before we can help, though I'm going to add to the list to answer (sorry)

What are your water stats?
What is your current maintanance?
What is your current feeding regiem?

These are probibly the most important "first questions" at this stage, followed by;

How long has the tank been set-up?
What is stocked in your tank?
What is the temperature set at?
What are the tank dimentions?
What equipment do you have?

This might seem like "question overload" but we need it to get a clear idea of what is going on in your tank ATM. Also, while solving current issues, members here like to avoid future potential problems while at it

Finicy eating is often down to stress, or just being offered one food for a prolonged length of time

Standord procedure would be to stave down the fish by not feeding for 1 week, before offering the new food again. If they don't accept it, leave it another week and try again. Healthy fish should last for upto a month before looking "worse for wear" from the starving treatment, but before you start that, lets try and eliminate stress completely

One final question, I promice

What foods are you offering and planning to offer?

All the best
Rabbut

 

[willjones]

Thanks for the replies everyone, i'll answer as many ques as I can. Rabbut seems to have asked the most ques so I'll start by answering as many of those that I can.

1+1/2 inch discus as your first Discus. Someone felt like doing lots of work for very small cost savings, or dived in at the deep end with an "advanced" species before researching them
I did a fair bit of research, I know you're meant to buy them slightly larger, but these fish were about 1/3 price of larger fish, not feeling very flush I succumbed.

What are your water stats?
The ones I know are, KH1, pH 5.9, I don't know the general hardness. I don't test for anything else, I do add nitrate, phosphate, sulphate and minerals to help the plants, but not in excessive quantities at all (plants keep going white as they use up all the nutrients I put in).
I use treated tap water that has been left to stand for about a week, which is KH2 ph 7.4, I've got a bag of crushed coral in the tank to try to bring up the KH, which partially worked. I add CO2 for the plants which has the side effect of bringing down the pH.
I know these water conditions are not ideal but not sure how to change them further. I suppose I could add more crushed coral?? I'm also not sure how the water becomes so acidic, and how the buffer gets used up, perhaps it's due to the CO2, or perhaps due to dead plant leaves? The truth is that I'm trying to find a compromise for fish and plants, perhaps I'm asking too much!

What is your current maintanance?
I change just over 40% of the water once a week.

What is your current feeding regiem?
I feed them three times a day, mostly frozen bloodworm, occasionally frozen tubifex. They go mad for bloodworm!
I've tried leaving them go hungry for a day or so, afraid to go longer than that because I don't want to stunt their growth (if this hasn't happened already).

How long has the tank been set-up?
1 year. I've had the discus for 3 weeks.

What is stocked in your tank?
4 discus, 20 cardinals, 4 peppered corys, 1 bristlenose, 1 chinese algae eater.

What is the temperature set at?
28.5 degrees celcius.

What are the tank dimentions?
200L tank, approx 50*38*120cm

What equipment do you have?
Eheim pro II 2026, inline heater, inline UV, that's it!

Finicky eating is often down to stress, or just being offered one food for a prolonged length of time
I watched them eating red granule food in the shop, and have tried different foods with them.

Standord procedure would be to stave down the fish by not feeding for 1 week, before offering the new food again. If they don't accept it, leave it another week and try again. Healthy fish should last for upto a month before looking "worse for wear" from the starving treatment, but before you start that, lets try and eliminate stress completely
Ok, I'm abit nervous about leaving them that long incase they starve, but willing to give it a go if necessary.

What foods are you offering and planning to offer?
Standard tropical fish flake food, dried granules (red crumb from ta-aquaculture, http/www.ta-aquaculture.co.uk/).
Frozen bloodworm, they will also take, but less enthusiastically tubifex, daphnia and mosquito larvae.

Hey Will!You found it (recognise those swords and have found out what kind they are!!)Good luck with the fish

Thanks mate, meant to let you know the name of the sword but I'm not very good with plant names. Cheers for the message, will

 

[rabbut]

OK, it would look to me that stress would be at least part of the problem We need the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate stats to realy say if waterquality is OK, but in a 1 year old tank it should be. You should not take it for granted that it is though Adding phosphates, nitrates, co2 e.t.c, sounds like an EI tank to me... This means we'll have to take the Nitrate reading with a pinch of salt, though if you are dosing it you should be testing it The nitrate you add is in-organic and relativerly harmless, compaired to the organic nitrate the fish produce via the filters. Both should show on Nitrate tests though

40% weekly waterchanges aren't enough at this stage. They want that daily at least untill 4" in length

With the way the tank needs to be ran, I'd ditch the plants or the discus at this point, and if you choose to keep the discus, add the plants back in once they have grown out. CO2 injection without a pH controller will always fluctuate the pH, which you don't want with youngh fry (which is basically what the Discus are ATM). Substrate increases the waste in the tank and thus the chances of stunting For this reason, if you keep the Discus, the substrate needs to go the same way as the plants.

The Chinese Algea Eaters are known discus latchers, and can reportedly kill fish many times their size if given the chance. These fish should be kept species only, as they predate their tankmates after 6", going on to an adult length of 8"

I'd ramp the temperature up to 30oC at least, youngh fish are more prone to worms, which don't like heat I'd also look to add another filter, the 2026 won't cope with adults waste loads in a heavily stocked tank, I wouldn't have thought... A temperature increase has a plensant side effect of boositng apetites, making it easier to wean off Bloodworm

The diet may need attention. There is plenty of frozen, but there isn't right lot of protien for growth there... A good proprietary dried granual should for the staple, 50% of the diet, with various frozen and live/fresh foods for the rest. Avoid bloodworm for the moment, and focus on the other foods if you keep them Also, boost feedings to 4-5 times daily

All the best
Rabbut

 

[willjones]

OK, it would look to me that stress would be at least part of the problem We need the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate stats to realy say if waterquality is OK, but in a 1 year old tank it should be. You should not take it for granted that it is though Adding phosphates, nitrates, co2 e.t.c, sounds like an EI tank to me... This means we'll have to take the Nitrate reading with a pinch of salt, though if you are dosing it you should be testing it The nitrate you add is in-organic and relativerly harmless, compaired to the organic nitrate the fish produce via the filters. Both should show on Nitrate tests though

40% weekly waterchanges aren't enough at this stage. They want that daily at least untill 4" in length

With the way the tank needs to be ran, I'd ditch the plants or the discus at this point, and if you choose to keep the discus, add the plants back in once they have grown out. CO2 injection without a pH controller will always fluctuate the pH, which you don't want with youngh fry (which is basically what the Discus are ATM). Substrate increases the waste in the tank and thus the chances of stunting For this reason, if you keep the Discus, the substrate needs to go the same way as the plants.

The Chinese Algea Eaters are known discus latchers, and can reportedly kill fish many times their size if given the chance. These fish should be kept species only, as they predate their tankmates after 6", going on to an adult length of 8"

I'd ramp the temperature up to 30oC at least, youngh fish are more prone to worms, which don't like heat I'd also look to add another filter, the 2026 won't cope with adults waste loads in a heavily stocked tank, I wouldn't have thought... A temperature increase has a plensant side effect of boositng apetites, making it easier to wean off Bloodworm

The diet may need attention. There is plenty of frozen, but there isn't right lot of protien for growth there... A good proprietary dried granual should for the staple, 50% of the diet, with various frozen and live/fresh foods for the rest. Avoid bloodworm for the moment, and focus on the other foods if you keep them Also, boost feedings to 4-5 times daily

All the best
Rabbut

Thanks for the advice Rabbut. I think what you're telling me is that Discus are a high demand species, at least whilst they're young and you can't compromise in providing the right conditions for them. I'm guessing you're a specialist Discus keeper. I'll bear your advice in mind for the future. In the meantime I don't really want to change my aquarium drastically because I like the look of a planted aquarium, like a habitat for the fish! Also daily 40% water changes aren't practical for me, 30 degrees would kill the plants I think, and I don't want to stop the CO2 injection because it would also be detrimental for the plants.
I have read advice from other people that these sorts of measures are necessary, I guess I'm having an experiment to see if Discus can be kept in less strict conditions. I'll let you know how I get on! Thanks again for your input, Will

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

OK, it would look to me that stress would be at least part of the problem We need the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate stats to realy say if waterquality is OK, but in a 1 year old tank it should be. You should not take it for granted that it is though Adding phosphates, nitrates, co2 e.t.c, sounds like an EI tank to me... This means we'll have to take the Nitrate reading with a pinch of salt, though if you are dosing it you should be testing it The nitrate you add is in-organic and relativerly harmless, compaired to the organic nitrate the fish produce via the filters. Both should show on Nitrate tests though

40% weekly waterchanges aren't enough at this stage. They want that daily at least untill 4" in length

With the way the tank needs to be ran, I'd ditch the plants or the discus at this point, and if you choose to keep the discus, add the plants back in once they have grown out. CO2 injection without a pH controller will always fluctuate the pH, which you don't want with youngh fry (which is basically what the Discus are ATM). Substrate increases the waste in the tank and thus the chances of stunting For this reason, if you keep the Discus, the substrate needs to go the same way as the plants.

The Chinese Algea Eaters are known discus latchers, and can reportedly kill fish many times their size if given the chance. These fish should be kept species only, as they predate their tankmates after 6", going on to an adult length of 8"

I'd ramp the temperature up to 30oC at least, youngh fish are more prone to worms, which don't like heat I'd also look to add another filter, the 2026 won't cope with adults waste loads in a heavily stocked tank, I wouldn't have thought... A temperature increase has a plensant side effect of boositng apetites, making it easier to wean off Bloodworm

The diet may need attention. There is plenty of frozen, but there isn't right lot of protien for growth there... A good proprietary dried granual should for the staple, 50% of the diet, with various frozen and live/fresh foods for the rest. Avoid bloodworm for the moment, and focus on the other foods if you keep them Also, boost feedings to 4-5 times daily

All the best
Rabbut

Thanks for the advice Rabbut. I think what you're telling me is that Discus are a high demand species, at least whilst they're young and you can't compromise in providing the right conditions for them. I'm guessing you're a specialist Discus keeper. I'll bear your advice in mind for the future. In the meantime I don't really want to change my aquarium drastically because I like the look of a planted aquarium, like a habitat for the fish! Also daily 40% water changes aren't practical for me, 30 degrees would kill the plants I think, and I don't want to stop the CO2 injection because it would also be detrimental for the plants.
I have read advice from other people that these sorts of measures are necessary, I guess I'm having an experiment to see if Discus can be kept in less strict conditions. I'll let you know how I get on! Thanks again for your input, Will

You say you don't want to stunt your Discus, and then you disregard a expert Discus keepers information about how not to stunt them?

Discus that size need water changes in order to grow properly. Clean water is a must. If you aren't doing daily or at BARE MINIMUM every other day water changes, then you are going to stunt your fish. Weekly is out of the question.



If everything seems okay with your water stats and tank, then you either need to starve them for about a week and try another frozen food like brine shrimp, glass worms or mysis shrimp, or slowly ween them off blood worms. You can achieve this by mixing 5 parts blood worms, to 1 part other frozen food and slowly upping the amount of other frozen food until there is no blood worms.

 

[willjones]

You say you don't want to stunt your Discus, and then you disregard a expert Discus keepers information about how not to stunt them?

Discus that size need water changes in order to grow properly. Clean water is a must. If you aren't doing daily or at BARE MINIMUM every other day water changes, then you are going to stunt your fish. Weekly is out of the question.



If everything seems okay with your water stats and tank, then you either need to starve them for about a week and try another frozen food like brine shrimp, glass worms or mysis shrimp, or slowly ween them off blood worms. You can achieve this by mixing 5 parts blood worms, to 1 part other frozen food and slowly upping the amount of other frozen food until there is no blood worms.

I am not disregarding the advice. As I said in the last post, I've taken the advice on board but it's not practical for me to follow it. I do not have time to do daily 40% water changes on a 200L aquarium. I appreciate the all the advice that I've been given, thankyou. I have no intention of causing offence.
William

 

[rabbut]

If you don't have the time you shouldn't have the fish. Either trade them in for larger (4"+) Discus fish, paying the difference as likely required, or trade them in for a different species. They will stunt with weekly waterchages, no if's, not but's, they will. That severly shortens the lenght and quality of life for the fish if they stunt badly No offence is intended here, but I do surgest that you take a long look at the care you can offer before making any future purchasing decisions on livestock

All the best
Rabbut