Discus recommended pH kH gH levels

[Nicko19]

Hey guys,

In the process of setting my parameters in my aquarium to suit discus fish.

There are a lot of articals an discussions about people’s recommendations and they all fluctuate witch is making it hard for me to narrow down my water hardness/softness levels.

I have recently buffed my aquarium water during a 80% water change with seachem acid buffer to drop the pH an alkaline buffer stabilize the pH.

I used my API kH + gH test kit and I got a result of kH 4-5 drops and gH 12-15 drops with my pH sitting at 7.0

Any advice with this would be much appreciated!

I also must add I found a difference in my tap water chemistry through my cold water supply and hot water supply.

Turns out my tap cold water supply is 7.6pH and my tap hot water supply is 8.6pH as for a change in hardness I am yet to make some tests to gain further information and results.

 

[Colin_T]

Are you keeping wild caught or captive bred discus?

Wild caught discus need soft water (GH below 100ppm) and a pH below 7.0.
Captive bred discus will tolerate harder water up to a GH of 200ppm and a pH up to about 7.8.

What is your GH and KH in ppm or dGH?

 

[Nicko19]

Are you keeping wild caught or captive bred discus?

Wild caught discus need soft water (GH below 100ppm) and a pH below 7.0.
Captive bred discus will tolerate harder water up to a GH of 200ppm and a pH up to about 7.8.

What is your GH and KH in ppm or dGH?

Thank you for your reply,

They are captive bred from Singapore.
I used the API test kit and if I’m correct I believe each drop is equal to a degree so my gH was 12-15 drops (witch I will test again tonight) should be equal to 12-15 degrees or around 200ppm and my kH was 4-5 drops and equates to the same 4-5 degrees I think 10-15ppm.

Essentially I’d like to match my suppliers parameters then slowly adjust to tap water parameters over time with small regular water changes as I’m aware that the more stable the water the less stress will occur but id like to not spook the discus in the transfer process, I have read articals that there is a osmotic shock occurs days after fish have been added to an aquarium with a higher gH than what it currently was in.

I’m hoping to match the same parameters as my supplier pH kH and gH otherwise I’ll have to acclimate witch I have never done before but seems pretty simple with adding some of the aquarium water slowly over a period of time before adding to the aquarium to reduce the risk of this osmotic shock.

 

[Colin_T]

The only way you will be able to find out what the supplier's water is like is to contact them. However, that will be nearly impossible without knowing who they are. You could ask the shop to contact their supplier and find out what the GH and pH are.

Get your pH to 7.0 and the GH to 100ppm and go from there.

 

[Nicko19]

The only way you will be able to find out what the supplier's water is like is to contact them. However, that will be nearly impossible without knowing who they are. You could ask the shop to contact their supplier and find out what the GH and pH are.

Get your pH to 7.0 and the GH to 100ppm and go from there.

Thanks Colin I will make some enquiries and get some answers, I think either way I’ll go ahead with the acclimation method even if my parameters meet “there” parameters just to be on the safer side, I may even test the parameters the fish come in.

What are some steps in reducing my gH without changing my pH an kH?

 

[seangee]

By far the easiest way is to mix your tap water with RO or distilled water. The relationship is linear, so if you want to get from 200 to 100 ppm mix it at 50/50. Don't worry about KH and pH. The KH will reduce proportionally and the pH will do what it wants (non-scientific version ).

Using acid / alkaline buffers won't touch the hardness, which is the thing that actually matters. The fish will accept a fairly broad range of pH as long as it is stable.

 

[Nicko19]

By far the easiest way is to mix your tap water with RO or distilled water. The relationship is linear, so if you want to get from 200 to 100 ppm mix it at 50/50. Don't worry about KH and pH. The KH will reduce proportionally and the pH will do what it wants (non-scientific version ).

Using acid / alkaline buffers won't touch the hardness, which is the thing that actually matters. The fish will accept a fairly broad range of pH as long as it is stable.

Ok thank you this is very helpful!

Is there a certain gH level that discus thrive between? The information out there is very skeptical with people have all sorts of different opinions as well as different levels for different situations such as having for display purposes or growing discus and even breeding!

Once I have established my new discus happily into there new environment I will gradually do small water changes using my straight tap water so the fish become acclimated to my water supply and this is if my tap water parameters meet what’s suitable for discus of course! Any ideas what is safe on going parameters?

 

[seangee]

Turns out my tap cold water supply is 7.6pH and my tap hot water supply is 8.6pH as for a change in hardness I am yet to make some tests to gain further information and results.

Unless you have a water softening system on your drinking water this is most likely explained by the fact that water companies meddle with the pH in the supply. This is a temporary effect. As your cold water is directly from the water supply and hot water has been in your house for a while the hot water is likely correct. As a test allow a glass of tap water to stand for 24 hours and then test it.

 

[seangee]

Is there a certain gH level that discus thrive between? The information out there is very skeptical with people have all sorts of different opinions as well as different levels for different situations such as having for display purposes or growing discus and even breeding!

They originate in the Amazon which has very soft water. 100ppm is probably the highest I would go. You could actually go all the way to 0 and use pure RO water (which many people recommend). This would give you the ideal conditions but may work out expensive if your water is metered or you have to buy your RO, since discus require frequent large water changes.

FWIW I do use pure RO in my Amazonian tank (but I don't keep discus)

 

[Nicko19]

Unless you have a water softening system on your drinking water this is most likely explained by the fact that water companies meddle with the pH in the supply. This is a temporary effect. As your cold water is directly from the water supply and hot water has been in your house for a while the hot water is likely correct. As a test allow a glass of tap water to stand for 24 hours and then test it.

Thank you mate, I did some tests and your right the hot water was actually more accurate.

 

[Byron]

My only comment concerns how you alter your water chemistry if you decide to. Do not use chemicals, buffers, or similar. These concoctions get inside the fish and that is something you want to avoid as much as possible. Mixing pure water with tap as sangee suggested is much safer, and more reliable. And frankly, the only way to do it. Remember that this means having prepared water ahead of time to use at all water changes; you cannot be mixing waters inside the tank.

Target the GH with this, lowering it obviously. The pH will follow and establish itself according to the GH and KH and the tank's biology so it should be stable. There is no value in targeting the pH, which rarely works anyway if the GH/KH are not dealt with.

 

[Nicko19]

My only comment concerns how you alter your water chemistry if you decide to. Do not use chemicals, buffers, or similar. These concoctions get inside the fish and that is something you want to avoid as much as possible. Mixing pure water with tap as sangee suggested is much safer, and more reliable. And frankly, the only way to do it. Remember that this means having prepared water ahead of time to use at all water changes; you cannot be mixing waters inside the tank.

Target the GH with this, lowering it obviously. The pH will follow and establish itself according to the GH and KH and the tank's biology so it should be stable. There is no value in targeting the pH, which rarely works anyway if the GH/KH are not dealt with.

Thank you for your response!

Yes absolutely agreed, I basically am trying to match parameters with my supplier to make the acclimation process more swift, I need to investigate my tap water gH further, I’m getting 7.6pH and 3dkH (0-50ppm) at the tap, my suppliers parameters is 7.0pH and he doesn’t worry about the kH an gH, just buffs his water to 7.0 and sets temp to 30C, once the discus are happily set in to there new environment I’m thinking of doing small water changes over the days to acclimate there new environment back to the tap water supply of 7.6 slowly so during water changes I don’t need to buff an add stupid chemicals

 

[seangee]

Just IMHO your water is harder than I would keep discus in and I would mix with (at least) 50% RO but it can be done. Of course this assumes your ongoing investigation doesn't discover anything different to what you posted before.

As for acclimation there are two schools of thought on this. I have stopped bothering and just put them straight into the water I intend to stick with. I started doing this the first time I had fish shipped to me as the water they were in was pretty foul by the time they got to me (not the suppliers fault, its what happens when you ship fish) and I figured clean fresh water was the best thing for them. I had made similar enquiries to you and they used the same pH approach which you described. I looked up the water in the region where they were based and it was hard - I was buying soft water fish. So I put them straight into the soft water they require without a single casualty. All my fish are in water that suits their natural environment, irrespective of what the supplier used. Your discus will have been bred and raised in soft water.

IMO a one off change is stressful, but not nearly as stressful as being shipped or moved. What affects long term health is repeated changes and the pH buffering approach often results in a yoyo effect on pH which is another reason to avoid it.

Please note: Some will disagree with me on acclimation and that's OK. I just don't see how you can change a fish's requirements or internal biology in a few hours, days or even weeks - depending on how you do your acclimation.

 

[Nicko19]

Just IMHO your water is harder than I would keep discus in and I would mix with (at least) 50% RO but it can be done. Of course this assumes your ongoing investigation doesn't discover anything different to what you posted before.

As for acclimation there are two schools of thought on this. I have stopped bothering and just put them straight into the water I intend to stick with. I started doing this the first time I had fish shipped to me as the water they were in was pretty foul by the time they got to me (not the suppliers fault, its what happens when you ship fish) and I figured clean fresh water was the best thing for them. I had made similar enquiries to you and they used the same pH approach which you described. I looked up the water in the region where they were based and it was hard - I was buying soft water fish. So I put them straight into the soft water they require without a single casualty. All my fish are in water that suits their natural environment, irrespective of what the supplier used. Your discus will have been bred and raised in soft water.

IMO a one off change is stressful, but not nearly as stressful as being shipped or moved. What affects long term health is repeated changes and the pH buffering approach often results in a yoyo effect on pH which is another reason to avoid it.

Please note: Some will disagree with me on acclimation and that's OK. I just don't see how you can change a fish's requirements or internal biology in a few hours, days or even weeks - depending on how you do your acclimation.

Thank you for your response,

I’ll be doing a tap water re test on my gH and also with my Aquarium tonight as I believe I may have got it wrong. If my gH results are higher than 100ppm I will be looking at the dilution method with distilled water and I agree with your acclimation belief as going from hard to soft wouldn’t be far as bad as soft to hard seeing as tho these fish are naturally from soft waters and would definitely been raised as from fry in soft conditions.

So far my water conditions are;

Tap supply,
7.6pH 3dkH (0-50ppm) and for now gH is unknown

Aquarium,
7.0ph 3dkH (0-50ppm) and again no gH for now until tonight...

My LFS is very close to where I live in the same suburb and they don’t have any issues with there water parameters very neutral so I’m leaning on the gH being around 50-100ppm but I’ll know tonight

Also my supplier is local based and he ships the fish in and he quarantines them for 1-2 week depending on how he feels they have recovered and revived after the ship process, he also mentioned he doesn’t worry about his kH an gH just buffs his water every time to 7.0 and sets temp to 30C. I’m hoping I can adjust my aquarium 0.1pH up to 7.6pH daily to reach my tap supply to reduce the changes so much and stop using the acid buffing chemicals, I have been told discus will do just fine in a stable 7.6ph with soft water conditions

 

[Nicko19]

Just IMHO your water is harder than I would keep discus in and I would mix with (at least) 50% RO but it can be done. Of course this assumes your ongoing investigation doesn't discover anything different to what you posted before.

As for acclimation there are two schools of thought on this. I have stopped bothering and just put them straight into the water I intend to stick with. I started doing this the first time I had fish shipped to me as the water they were in was pretty foul by the time they got to me (not the suppliers fault, its what happens when you ship fish) and I figured clean fresh water was the best thing for them. I had made similar enquiries to you and they used the same pH approach which you described. I looked up the water in the region where they were based and it was hard - I was buying soft water fish. So I put them straight into the soft water they require without a single casualty. All my fish are in water that suits their natural environment, irrespective of what the supplier used. Your discus will have been bred and raised in soft water.

IMO a one off change is stressful, but not nearly as stressful as being shipped or moved. What affects long term health is repeated changes and the pH buffering approach often results in a yoyo effect on pH which is another reason to avoid it.

Please note: Some will disagree with me on acclimation and that's OK. I just don't see how you can change a fish's requirements or internal biology in a few hours, days or even weeks - depending on how you do your acclimation.

Ok so gH test was done

I used my API gH test kit and got orange color test water at drop 2 and green was around drop 4-5 if I do count my first drop witch only gives me a light yellow color I get a total of 4-5 drops so my dgH is 4 or 5 and my ppm is between 50-100ppm (3-6dgH) range on the chart from tap and aquarium