Discus Problems

[rabbut]

Ok, as the title says, I'm having problems with one of my discus. It's been going on for arround one week. Though the fish is relatively new to the tank, it has been in for a month, it seemed to be well settled. It worked its way to second in command quite quickly, within the group of four. About a week ago, the fish would suddenly loose colour and swim irraticaly (at high speed and jumping) for a few seconds, before regaining colour and calming. Though weired, one of my discus keeping friends surgested that it may just be a weird habit developed by this individual. I was unconvinsed
Any how, about two days ago, the irratic swimming became a little more of a regular thing. Only the colour was rarely there anymore. This is when I started getting rather more conserned. Yesterday, he lost his apitite, and started being bullied by most other discus in the group (including the runt ). Today, he has developed a white colour to his gills, and also a few patches of white on his side, that isn't slime He also has what looks like a fungral infection on his right eye, and is now blind on this side

Anyone have any ideas? I would post in the emergance section, but this appears to be isolated to the one fish, and ins't like any other type of disease I have seen in my 13+ years of fish keeping....Which is why I suspect it may be something that may only affect discus??

Any help is greatly appreciated
Rabbut

 

[cheesy feet]

I would quarantine and get some pics up ASAP

 

[WILDER]

Darting around a tank can be a sign of parasites, bad water quality, stray voltage.

White patches can be columnaris to parasite.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing againt objects, or laboured breathing.
Water stats would be good.

 

[WILDER]

<a href="http/www.aquaticcommunity.com/discusfish/discus2.php" target="_blank">http/www.aquaticcommunity.com/discusfish/discus2.php</a>

Taken from the link.
Gill fluke
Gill flukes are unfortunately a common problem for Discus fish and are especially dangerous for Discus fry. Gill flukes are external parasites that destroy the gills and causes heavy breathing and erratic swimming. The infested fish can also become spastic or completely paralyzed and sink down to the bottom. It can be cured using formalin, but preventing it is naturally preferably. Since adult fish becomes less affected by gill flukes, infested parents will often be healthy enough to spawn. When they offspring have grown to about the size of a 10 cent coin, gill flukes transmitted by the parents will turn into a serious problem. Gill flukes can be prevented by moving the fry to their own aquarium as soon as they are big enough to eat something else than secretions from their parents. It is also important not to crowd fry aquariums.

Not saying it gill flukes but I would search and rule it out, but with the erratic swimming sounds more like a parasite involved.
Skin flukes signs are a fish being opaque in colour with excess slime.

 

[Mr._Fishy]

Hmmm, my severum did this a short while back. He would all of a sudden for no apparent reason just go wild and dart and jump crazily. He never lost his color or appetite though. I tested the water and it was fine. I have other more sensitive fish in the tank and they didn't do anything like this. He is fine now, but it was pretty weird.

Ryan

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Start treatment with some salt, get him on a copper based medication or fluke medication. The darting and lose of color is probably due to him getting irritated by the flukes in his gills.

Stick him into a hospital tank at least 10 gallons large.

Check water stats, how often do you clean the tank?


The most logical reason for him not eating is due to stress. Cloudy eye is going to be due to bad water quality.

 

[rabbut]

OK, waterstats;

Ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 12.5 ph 6.5 GH6 02 is between 5 and 8. the temp is set to 30 degrees centigrade, or 86 farrenheight

I can't see anything wrong there myself, but someone else might. Sorry, I don't have a KH reading.

Wilder, the tank that I bought the fish from suffered an outbreak of gill flukes the week after purchase, so this is a possibility. You recon Formulin and copper based compo med, and quarrenteen for this, or one based on just formulin or copper? I thought gill flukes was contagious, so am I best treating the main tank, rather than run the meds in quarrenteen, to iradicate the infection?

I do 10% dayly water changes, which is equivilant to 53% weeklys. I clean one of four sets of media in the filter weekly, in old tank water of course

This does seem like a parasite, but I wasn't quite shure which one....The only thing that doesn't fit, is the slime. It isn't affecting my specimin, but the other symptoms fit. Mebe a course of anti-paracite med, not just targeted at gill flukes is in order? I'm pretty shure that the darting is an effect of the infection, as shurely the darting would affect all specimins if it was a stray voltage?

Thanks all for the input
Rabbut

 

[rabbut]

I was going to do some phots for you, but the affected discus appears to have vanished off the face of the earth I have looked under and arround everything in the tank, and arround the tank also, to ensure it hasn't somehow escaped. No live discus, no body, no skelaton I prety shure that a three inch discus could not have been eaten by other fish in the tank in the space of a few hours. I would have found the body, I would have thought, if it had died, so I assume that its been able to dodge being spotted while I was looking for it earlier.

Anyhow, I have bought some Protozin, by waterlife, to run a course of treatment. The active ingrediants are Malachite Green, Formaldehyde and Copper Sulphate This should cover the the problem, as it contains both the active ingrediants that have been given. (My farther, a chemist by trade, has said confidently that Formaldehyde and formalin are the same)

Thanks for the input
Rabbut

P.S. The bottle says half dose for aquariums containing sencitive species. Would this include discus?

 

[rabbut]

Ok, found the mmissing discus. He's died He's showing anthing unusual to me. He has lost colour, but I suppose that is to be expected. The gills are still red, but the finns are erroded. Below are photos of the body of them.

Sorry to anyone thats squemish.

Any input anyone?
Rabbut

 

[WILDER]

Sorry bless him. R.I.P.
You have to retreat with flukes as some flukes are egg layers.
Fubenol in the uk for flukes you have to treat for 4 weeks.
Flukes cause bacterial infections, as in there hooks they carry a nasty bacteria which enters the fish blood stream when the parasite pierces the skin.
Once you have finished treating the flukes it says to back up with a bacterial med.

 

[WILDER]

That waterlife med is no good on gill flukes.
I would get this med.
http/www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/php/detail62_45492.php

 

[rabbut]

Definately gill flukes then? Would the 500gal pack be suffice for my 335 litre system, when carrying out 10% dayly waterchanges? Or do I need a larger pack?

Having looked at the decieced fishes gills, and also having not observed any noticable slime, I am not entierly convinced that it is gill flukes Presumably there is nothing else with similar symptoms, that this could be? One of the remaining discus is now flicking him/her self against plants. I realy want to be shure that I am treating for the right thing, as I don't want to loose another

Thanks again Wilder
Rabbut

Edited for spelling

 

[WILDER]

Sign of gill and skin flukes are.
Laboured breathing or harder breathing.
Flicking and rubbing against objects in the tank.
Red inflamed gills, or pale gills with excess mucas on them.
Weight loss.
Opaque or pale body with excess slime.
Spitting food out.
Swimming in a jerky movement.
Red sores on the body of the fish.
Erratic swimming.

One treatment dosn't kill flukes flukes if there eye layers.
That why you have to repeat the med.
All fish have a few flukes it when a fish get stressed they start to do the damage.

I would get two packs as you have to retreat, always good to have the med in stock as well.

 

[rabbut]

Ok, I try to fit the symptoms below to what I am seeing.

Sign of gill and skin flukes are.
Laboured breathing or harder breathing.

Not observed

Flicking and rubbing against objects in the tank.

Clearly observed on a number of occasions from one discus still alive and otherwise healthy looking

Red inflamed gills, or pale gills with excess mucas on them.

The gills on the deciesed looked normal to me, with no excess slime, and the healthy reddy-pink colouration. I cannot see the gills clearly on the remaining fish

Weight loss.

Not a problem here on the fish that are still alive, and the decieced wasn't off their food long enough before death to loose noticable amounts of weight

Opaque or pale body with excess slime.

Fitts here

Spitting food out.

Although observed, the fish are always happy to take the food back up again, and swallow after another try

Swimming in a jerky movement.

Though possible, I'm not shure that jerky is the best way of describing the movement the decieced was making

Red sores on the body of the fish.

Not observed

Erratic swimming.

Observed on the decieced only. No other fish have developed this symptom

In the link you gave earlier, the writer described formulin as a remedy to treat gill flukes. One of the active ingrediants in Protozin is Formaldahyde. My dad recons they are the same thing, and this site is close the confirming it IMO. About half way down, they state "Formalin is a derivative of formaldehyde. Formalin is a mixture of 37-40 percent formaldehyde, water, and usually 10 percent methanol" which to me means it is watered down, and has methanol added to it. Have I miss interpreted? Why would the protozin not work? Not high enough dosage in this product? Or is the author in the link you gave me a little out with the active ingreadiants to be looked for in flukes meds?

Sorry if this sound challenging, that is not its intention, I am just trying to understand why Protozin would not work, based upon the information given so far.

Thanks once again
Rabbut

Thanks for your time wilder, i realy appreciate it

 

[WILDER]

So your fish are showing signs of.
Swimming oddly.
They look pale.
Flicking and rubbing.
One fish erratic swimming.
Sounds like you do have a parasite, it could be skin flukes, labour breathing only happens when a fish is infested with them in the gills.

The waterlife meds not strong enough to kill gill flukes.