Discus beefhert
- Thread starter Mazain
- Start date
I've read from numerous sources that beefheart is bad for discus - esp adult discus and that it became popular because it allows young discus to grow rapidly (which is not always a good thing).
Bad or good, it's tradition, and that's the only reason it's still used. It was a brilliant hack in the era before fast transportation made more easily digested sea-based food available. It's become part of the lore of fishkeeping, and is a connection to the clever and resourceful hobby before the 1960s.
Is it harmful? It seems not to be. Part of its usefulness is the added ingredients. I take the old tried and true beefheart recipes, and replace the beef or goat heart (the competing recipe back then) with ground up shrimp or white fleshed fish.
We've got to keep hacking around, to use an expression from when beefheart wasn't obsolete.
Somewhere back in an old magazine I read a discussion of how beefheart was developed as a food, and the guys involved saw it as a solution for aquarists who lived far from coasts. They'd have a good laugh at its status now, but they'd probably still use it because that's how people operate.
Is it harmful? It seems not to be. Part of its usefulness is the added ingredients. I take the old tried and true beefheart recipes, and replace the beef or goat heart (the competing recipe back then) with ground up shrimp or white fleshed fish.
We've got to keep hacking around, to use an expression from when beefheart wasn't obsolete.
Somewhere back in an old magazine I read a discussion of how beefheart was developed as a food, and the guys involved saw it as a solution for aquarists who lived far from coasts. They'd have a good laugh at its status now, but they'd probably still use it because that's how people operate.
When I kept mine until quite recently and in the past I always fed a beefheart mix and dried foods.
The beefheart mixes from some discus specialists are fantastic and contain greenery and all kinds in there it looks so much nicer than the mass produced stuff on offer in most LFS freezers
I never saw any harm only good from feeding it and lifelong discus breeders and businesses used it which is good enough for me
The beefheart mixes from some discus specialists are fantastic and contain greenery and all kinds in there it looks so much nicer than the mass produced stuff on offer in most LFS freezers
I never saw any harm only good from feeding it and lifelong discus breeders and businesses used it which is good enough for me
Rusty_Shackleford
Fish Crazy
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2019
- Messages
- 396
- Reaction score
- 808
Sure just go get your discus a Big Mac.
I know our prepared foods aren't what discus eat in the wild. Nor do they eat cows. OK so the young grow fast and die young with blocked arteries.
A few years ago I ran across a thread on a tarantula forum where someone was feeding their tarantulas pieces of beef. Apparently there was a photograph of a wild tarantula eating some flesh of a dead cow.
Now we all know tarantulas eat predominantly insects, maybe the occasional lizard, frog, mouse. Yet there were many mental midgets who embraced feeding arachnids a totally unnatural food item.
I'm a proponent of feeding as natural diet as possible, with as many whole prey items as possible. Feeding beef to fish or tarantulas or to giraffes is totally absurd and ridiculous.
I know our prepared foods aren't what discus eat in the wild. Nor do they eat cows. OK so the young grow fast and die young with blocked arteries.
A few years ago I ran across a thread on a tarantula forum where someone was feeding their tarantulas pieces of beef. Apparently there was a photograph of a wild tarantula eating some flesh of a dead cow.
Now we all know tarantulas eat predominantly insects, maybe the occasional lizard, frog, mouse. Yet there were many mental midgets who embraced feeding arachnids a totally unnatural food item.
I'm a proponent of feeding as natural diet as possible, with as many whole prey items as possible. Feeding beef to fish or tarantulas or to giraffes is totally absurd and ridiculous.
The goal was never to feed beef. Fish can't digest animal fats, and the heart is the leanest muscle. I guess if it isn't, we know how the cow or goat died!
It was brilliant to realize this and improvise with it. As far as I can see, beef and goat heart recipes were the first home produced frozen foods, once refrigeration became easily accessible.
It's an enormous amount of wasted labour to make your own, compared to using more easily digested ingredients. It's the additions that make these recipes - the plant matter and colour enhancing elements. I took the recipe used by an old Discus breeder in our club, a man who died in his 90s in the 90s, and worked off of that with shrimp and fish bases.
I find it odd it's still used. It was a brilliant band aid solution, but better options are easy to find. We're very traditional in this hobby.
As for the question of natural - Discus need a lot of vegetable matter. But we aren't going to be able to feed them the plants they find in nature, so we use seaweed, spinach, carrots, peas, etc. And if the proteins come from heart muscle, it's no less natural than if it comes from North Atlantic shrimp or arctic fish.
We have to improvise. One of my favourite fish is my Epiplatys huberi, and in the wild they were eating a type of fire ant and the really small spiders that filled the bushes above them (and filled our nets when we caught the fish). Somehow, I can see those cultures going wrong.
Beefheart works. It's proven, and it doesn't seem to do any longterm damage. It was a great hack that's long since outlived its time.
It was brilliant to realize this and improvise with it. As far as I can see, beef and goat heart recipes were the first home produced frozen foods, once refrigeration became easily accessible.
It's an enormous amount of wasted labour to make your own, compared to using more easily digested ingredients. It's the additions that make these recipes - the plant matter and colour enhancing elements. I took the recipe used by an old Discus breeder in our club, a man who died in his 90s in the 90s, and worked off of that with shrimp and fish bases.
I find it odd it's still used. It was a brilliant band aid solution, but better options are easy to find. We're very traditional in this hobby.
As for the question of natural - Discus need a lot of vegetable matter. But we aren't going to be able to feed them the plants they find in nature, so we use seaweed, spinach, carrots, peas, etc. And if the proteins come from heart muscle, it's no less natural than if it comes from North Atlantic shrimp or arctic fish.
We have to improvise. One of my favourite fish is my Epiplatys huberi, and in the wild they were eating a type of fire ant and the really small spiders that filled the bushes above them (and filled our nets when we caught the fish). Somehow, I can see those cultures going wrong.
Beefheart works. It's proven, and it doesn't seem to do any longterm damage. It was a great hack that's long since outlived its time.
I have used beefheart with Oscars, blue acaras and other central and south american cichlids and their growth rates were rapid.
Beefheart has zero disease than contrast to feeder fish and other animals fed to cichlids or other fish.
Traditionally as a fish keeper I don't feed other live feeder fish to my discus or any other fish that I keep as a norm.
So I think beefheart is a disease free high nutrients rich food for your fish for optimal growth.
Beefheart has zero disease than contrast to feeder fish and other animals fed to cichlids or other fish.
Traditionally as a fish keeper I don't feed other live feeder fish to my discus or any other fish that I keep as a norm.
So I think beefheart is a disease free high nutrients rich food for your fish for optimal growth.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
Many years ago I was at a presentation made by Stephan Tanner owner of Swiss Tropicals, a lifelong fish keeper and a cancer researcher. Somewhere the subject of feeding "bee farts" to fish came up and he was unequivocal in his opinion. Never feed this to fish. I never have done so even when I had discus.
However, everybody makes their own choices in this and some folks like Mazain above do not agree with the do not feed approach. I tend not to feed animal products to my fish. I did recently try one human food for my clown loaches and it is also eaten by the redline barbs in the tank, I am feeding cooked shrimp about twice a month.
I do feed frozen brine and mysis shrimp, daphnia, rotifers and sometimes blood worms. I have also fed tubifex and for a very short time live red wiggler worms (typically used in composting). I messed with hatching BBS but gave that up pretty fast. My favorite fry food was frozen cyclop-eeze. But the only lake where they lived experience a crash in the population and that was the end of cyclop-eeze (it was also available freeze dried). I weened baby angels off of live BBS and onto 100% cyclop-eeze only by the second week . I started to mix it in with the BBS after week one amd increased the amount of cyclops each day in week two. I stopped feeding any live BBS at the end of week 2.
However, everybody makes their own choices in this and some folks like Mazain above do not agree with the do not feed approach. I tend not to feed animal products to my fish. I did recently try one human food for my clown loaches and it is also eaten by the redline barbs in the tank, I am feeding cooked shrimp about twice a month.
I do feed frozen brine and mysis shrimp, daphnia, rotifers and sometimes blood worms. I have also fed tubifex and for a very short time live red wiggler worms (typically used in composting). I messed with hatching BBS but gave that up pretty fast. My favorite fry food was frozen cyclop-eeze. But the only lake where they lived experience a crash in the population and that was the end of cyclop-eeze (it was also available freeze dried). I weened baby angels off of live BBS and onto 100% cyclop-eeze only by the second week . I started to mix it in with the BBS after week one amd increased the amount of cyclops each day in week two. I stopped feeding any live BBS at the end of week 2.
Rusty_Shackleford
Fish Crazy
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2019
- Messages
- 396
- Reaction score
- 808
Don't forget about angelfish and neons.
plebian
Fish Crazy
I've kept quite a few discus alongside cardinal tetras and never had one eaten. I've been keeping blue neons, which are smaller than cardinals, with discus for two years now and the discus have never shown the slightest interest. This doesn't imply that discus never eat small fish, just that it's not the norm. I have had them eat very young fry.
plebian
Fish Crazy
As long as any leftovers are removed immediately. Otherwise, it's a fabulous breeding ground for pathogenic bacteria.
fishorama
Fish Addict
I made & fed a beefheart mix along with many other foods to feed my discus juveniles. I don't think they were harmed by having many food choices every day. It made them less fussy, they would eat anything I offered especially by hand. Never the same foods 6x/day. Peas, spinach? Yes, they ate some. Seafood mix, bring it! Flakes, frozen food or pellets, of course! They were spoiled for choices. Live white worms or little red wigglers, yes please!! I did daily, or almost water changes. Lots of food = lots of poo.
I think variety is the spice of life for both my fishes & me too. There isn't just 1 ""magic" diet for most species. I find giving just 1 type or brand of food leads to big trouble if I can't source it all the time.
My juvenile clown loaches would eat the beefheart mix, but not their favorite food by far. They loved fresh veggies & many homemade, live, frozen & prepared foods. I know it sounds strange, but if I didn't feed romaine, peas or zucchini at least 2x//week they'd tear up the plants in their tank
I tried this with other loach species, but they were indifferent unless pellets were slit into the veggies...they might eat a bit by accident, maybe some peas.
I think variety is the spice of life for both my fishes & me too. There isn't just 1 ""magic" diet for most species. I find giving just 1 type or brand of food leads to big trouble if I can't source it all the time.
My juvenile clown loaches would eat the beefheart mix, but not their favorite food by far. They loved fresh veggies & many homemade, live, frozen & prepared foods. I know it sounds strange, but if I didn't feed romaine, peas or zucchini at least 2x//week they'd tear up the plants in their tank
I tried this with other loach species, but they were indifferent unless pellets were slit into the veggies...they might eat a bit by accident, maybe some peas.
There's no need for a beefheart good/bad approach. It's a food, it has a history that's a testament to a previous generation's ingenuity when faced with a problem we don't have. It doesn't kill fish. It may not be the best, but it doesn't kill fish.
Stephen Tanner doesn't use it, but @Mazain likes it. I'm with Stephen on that, but he uses a lot of repashy and I don't. I think repashy foods are excellent but they aren't practical for me. Neither is beefheart, since I feel I can offer better options. I don't keep Discus anymore and if I did, they'd eat differently than my killies, or differently than what I fed them the last time I kept them.
So long as we know why the 'odd' foods we choose are available and whether they work, they often beat pellets and prepared foods.
Stephen Tanner doesn't use it, but @Mazain likes it. I'm with Stephen on that, but he uses a lot of repashy and I don't. I think repashy foods are excellent but they aren't practical for me. Neither is beefheart, since I feel I can offer better options. I don't keep Discus anymore and if I did, they'd eat differently than my killies, or differently than what I fed them the last time I kept them.
So long as we know why the 'odd' foods we choose are available and whether they work, they often beat pellets and prepared foods.
Similar threads
Most reactions
-
402 -
249 -
177 -
157 -
156 -
120 -
119 -
115 -
110 -
107 -
106 -
104 -
103 -
93 -
90