Dead And Vanished Neons

[monkeyhanger]

Yesterday I came home to find a floating neon tetra. There was no damage to it, everything was in place. No sign of infection with it or any of the live fish.

We'd had some additions to the tank a few days previous, but nothing aggressive (1 very small silvery/blue platy and 6 glass bloodfin tetras), so I thought maybe due to the additions that i'd had a water condition spike.

I did a 30% water change (Prime used to condition new water) and did the usual water tests (API master liquid), results were

pH = 7.4 (and always has been)
Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrite = 0ppm
Nitrate = 5ppm

After the tank had been cleaned I noticed that I was missing a 2nd tetra. There'd been no sign of a corpse during my siphoning, and I hadn't accidentally sucked a neon up the siphon. The only thing that didn't get moved was a medium piece of mopani wood.

I have a 140 litre tank that now contains 7 neon tetras, 4 small cory sterbai, 4 smallish platys, a very placid Betta that gets on well with everything and hasn't been nipped itself, 6 glass bloodfin tetras. There are also 3 live plants in there that have grown healthily and help to mop up the nitrates.

The neon tetras are the oldest inhabitants of the tank - they were my first fish 12 weeks ago.

The neons are always first to the front of the tank when they think they're getting fed.

With the lack of visually apparent disease or physical damage to the floater, would this suggest neon tetra disease?

Do you think the missing one will turn up wholly or partially, or do you think the corys might have eaten the corpse if that one also died suddenly?

Just to add, all of the neons looked normal the previous few days, swimming normally and vibrant colouring, no bent spines. They aren't the tightest packed shoal, but doesn't this just indicate that they're comfortable in their surroundings and don't feel threatened?

 

[heartworm]

Did you cycle the tank before adding fish?

Neon tetra are pretty sensitive to water conditions and prefer a mature tank. Someone with more experience will be along soon to help though,

 

[WILDER]

I would try and find the neons as you don't want rotting fish in your tank.
Check ornaments, plants, and filter, and also around the floor area of the tank.

Make sure the neons red stripe is vibrant red and dosn't look bleached out or a milky substance on the red area.
Make sure also that the blue area on the neons dosn't look yellowish.

 

[monkeyhanger]

I would try and find the neons as you don't want rotting fish in your tank.
Check ornaments, plants, and filter, and also around the floor area of the tank.

Make sure the neons red stripe is vibrant red and dosn't look bleached out or a milky substance on the red area.
Make sure also that the blue area on the neons dosn't look yellowish.

I found the floater, it's the other one that I dont know where it is. During the tank clean (after finding the floater), 90% of the gravel got siphon vacuumed, I hadn't touched the mopani wood - i'll have a look underneath that first.

The tank is fully cycled, I have steady zero Ammonia and Nitrate levels, I check these 1 day after fish additions and also every week, just before a 30% water change.

The floating Neon had significantly faded in the red and blue areas, it had lost its glow (as expected). 8 hours earlier, all the neons were present and looking healthy.

My neons were the first fish in the tank, and have taken well to all my other additions without appearing scared or stressed. They haven't been harassed by any of the other fish either. There was the odd one that sometimes didn't shoal with the majority of the group but, I could never tell whether it was the same one or 2 each time.

 

[WILDER]

When fish have died they do look pale or bleached out.
Some neons don't always stick to the shaol but it dosn't mean ntd. Neons only shaol when stressed.
Just keep an eye on the fish.

 

[pippoodle]

the betta could have killed the neons over night - i know you say the betta is very well behaved but no one knows what happens when the lights are off
maybe the neons swam into betta territory
depending how long you have had the betta , it could be maturing now and getting nippy and defensive

just keep an eye for any more fatalities , it could just be one of those mysterious deaths and hopefully the betta will stay friendly but usually they dont do well with tank mates

In a 100 ltr cube there isn't a great footprint for all of the fish to swim without going into betta territory

have you any plants ?

 

[monkeyhanger]

the betta could have killed the neons over night - i know you say the betta is very well behaved but no one knows what happens when the lights are off
maybe the neons swam into betta territory
depending how long you have had the betta , it could be maturing now and getting nippy and defensive

just keep an eye for any more fatalities , it could just be one of those mysterious deaths and hopefully the betta will stay friendly but usually they dont do well with tank mates

In a 100 ltr cube there isn't a great footprint for all of the fish to swim without going into betta territory

have you any plants ?

I have 3 plants, a medium lump of Mopani that provides a "cave-like" area underneath, and a big bit of Jura rock with an airline bubbling through some of the holes. There are plenty of hiding places.

I specifically got the betta because in the shop it was already in with corys and neons. I know that Bettas are real individuals and you can sometimes get a radgy one instead of a placid one, but mine seems fine (even when i've been watching the tank with the lights off).

The betta hasn't grown any since we got it. The main body is 2.5" long. There are 2 courting platys that chase each other, sometimes straying very close to the betta, if he was going to attack something, I think it would be one of those next time they fly past him.

The betta wanders the whole tank and doesn't seem to have a favourite place you'd call its territory. None of the fish seem wary of the betta, which I thought would imply that it's not threatening them when it's not being watched.

 

[monkeyhanger]

I got home from work last night to find 3 of my 7 remaining neons with a furry fungus-like growth and the red portion of their tail very washed out. They were swimming without trouble, but seemed to have their gills flapping about 3 times faster than normal. One of them appeared to have a curved spine, but i'm not sure whether the fish is compensating for the tail fungal infection by swimming differently than normal? (in the same way someone with a sprained ankle modifies their walking style).

I put some antifungal meds in (Silver Proteinate active ingredient) and some Melafix.

I think the dead and missing tetras have caused the fungal outbreak at the start of decomposition. The floater looked intact, but the missing one must be rotting away somewhere. One of our new Platys was dead within 15 mins of leaving the bag when we got those 8 weeks ago, and that seemed to spread some fluffy fungal infection to the other Platys at the time. That outbreak was quickly eradicated by the same meds I have used this time.

Is there much hope for these Neons? I was going to see if they improve in a day's time, if none of the other fish get similar symptoms.

I thought that my Betta was also dead when I came in - it seemed completely still, and very much tucked into one of our plants which is fine and bushy, I could only see the end of it's tail sticking out. I combed the top of the plant and the Betta came out as normal.

I thought the missing tetra corpse might be stuck in the plant, and that was what the Betta was after, but after a comb through it, I couldn't see it. I had all my ornaments out of the tank and did a quick rake through the gravel, looked in the filter vents - nothing. I think it's been completely eaten up.

Last night my glass bloodfin tetras seemed to be bullying the neons a little, but I think it was just the ill ones.

So can anyone tell me whether I have neon tetra syndrome, or whether the fluffy stuff is just a general fungal infection?

How long should I wait for signs of improvement before deciding whether to get rid of the sick ones in a humane way?

 

[WILDER]

Need to look at ntd as bent spines as a symtom of it.
Could the fish have injured himself in the tank.
When I had neons and they had ntd the tail would look bleached out. Signs of ntd are.
The fish will leave the shaol.
The fish will be restless.
The red stripe area will look bleached out or a milky substance on the red stripe.
The blue area on the fish will glow a yellow colour abit like velvet.
The fish will swim oddly.
Bent spine.
Blacking linning around the red area.
Lumps on the belly that go to a point.


If the fungus of the fish looks white and fluffy it could be columanaris.
Do the gills look like there sticking together, or excess mucas on them.

 

[monkeyhanger]

Need to look at ntd as bent spines as a symtom of it.
Could the fish have injured himself in the tank.
When I had neons and they had ntd the tail would look bleached out. Signs of ntd are.
The fish will leave the shaol.
The fish will be restless.
The red stripe area will look bleached out or a milky substance on the red stripe.
The blue area on the fish will glow a yellow colour abit like velvet.
The fish will swim oddly.
Bent spine.
Blacking linning around the red area.
Lumps on the belly that go to a point.


If the fungus of the fish looks white and fluffy it could be columanaris.
Do the gills look like there sticking together, or excess mucas on them.

The fungus is white and fluffy, mainly affecting the back half of the fish. The red looks very faded, it doesn't have it's usual glow, the blue doesn't seem to be affected.

The gills look normal, it just seems as if the affected fish are breathing at around 3 times the rate of the healthy ones. The spine is a little bent on 1 of the 3 - bent left to right rather than up to down. The affected fish aren't as active, as if theres a restriction in movement in the tail flap.

My neons aren't tight shoalers, 2/3 of them are together at any one time (when they're all healthy), but there are always 1 or 2 that go off for a wander on their own (and not the same ones every time).

When I get home tonight i'll check out their condition to see any improvement, or whether whatever it is has spread to the other 4 neons.

I'm just wondering whether the fluffy stuff is as a result of a dead fish decomposing, or the cause of the death of the dead one (and the missing one).

I've had a fluffy outbreak before, on the Platys when I got one that died almost instantly. The other platys caught it and were treated, but the neons were fine (only had platys and neons at that point), and this time it seems only the neons are affected.

Are there outbreaks that only seem to target 1 species at a time, that result in a fluffy coating?

Thanks to everyone taking the time to offer the advice that i've had so far.

 

[monkeyhanger]

Just to add, hygeine wise - the tank generally gets a 30% water change every 4 or 5 days, including siphoning all the solid wastes off the gravel.

Fish food is Aquarian tropical flakes, plus a sinking catfish pellet for the corys, and a bloodworm icecube once a week as a treat. The flakes and bloodworm are eaten instantly - the fish aren't being overfed.

 

[WILDER]

Fluffy patches is columnaris.
The bacteria lives in the background of the tank that why is important to keep up with maintance.
Water change to dilute the bacteria down.
For columnaris in the uk myxazin by waterlife and pimafix.

If the fish is bent I would look out for other ntd symtoms.
http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm

 

[WILDER]

Has any neons gone thin.

http/freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/neondisease.htm

 

[monkeyhanger]

Has any neons gone thin.

No thin ones. We got the noens in 2 stages, the original 6, then another 4. The second set of 4 have always been noticeably smaller than the original 6. We lost one of the small ones straight away, as it was small enough to get jammed in the filter vent.

The 2 losses more recently seem to be from the original 6.

 

[WILDER]

I bought a shaol of neons and they were fine, had them quite a while with no deaths. Thought I would buy some more and the second batch must of had ntd as they wiped the whole tank out.
Fish showed different symtoms.
Bleached out red area.
Some had milky subtance on the red area.
Some neons had the yellow on the blue area.
One had a bent spine.
Some went thin.
They had blacking linning around the red area.
Some had lumps on there tummy that seemed to go to a point.
Secondary infections of dropsy and popeye.