Danios Dead?

[whall]

Hello folks,

I have a fairly new tank (60L), and after setting it up and letting it settle for a week to be sure of no leaks etc, I added 4 danios to begin the cycling process.

For the last few days they seem to have been happily swimming around, but about 2 hours ago I looked over at the tank and couldn't see them anywhere. It was like they just disappeared! For a while I wondered whether they had somehow been drawn into the filter.

However, after looking everywhere in the tank (I have quite a few plastic plants and decorations in there), I finally spotted one of the fish. It is buried deep into one of the plastic plants at the base but seems to be pointing up the length of the plant with its tail touching the base and its nose pointing up towards the surface. I did gently take hold of the top of the plant and move it slightly and it *did* look like the fish moved, but it could have just been the movement of the plant.

I strongly suspect that they all died suddenly and the poor little guy just got trapped in there, but it did seem odd that out of the 4, none of them are floating at the surface or visible anywhere inside the tank.

I suppose that tomorrow I am going to be trying to find the rest of them, and figuring out what went wrong (ammonia hasn't really increased dramatically yet, there are trace amounts though, Ph is a little high however, at about 8).

I guess, my question is, is there any possibility that this is natural behavior? Do fish, and danios in particular find places like this to rest? What are my odds of finding at least one of them happily swimming around the tank tomorrow morning?

 

[Efren]

would you consider doing a "fishless cyle"
using ammonia - no fish -

most members here will suggest the same thing--

 

[Corleone]

http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...shless-Cycling/

Most members will strongly advise it. The cycle process, as described by pet stores, is almost certain to kill most fish. The behavior you describe in the survivor sounds like it's on the edge of death, either from water quality or infection (many of which are linked to poor water quality) - even badly stressed, danios don't stand vertically like that. Many fish, especially active and strong jumpers like danios, will try to escape declining water quality. Check the carpet around the tank for the missing fish. If you have a cat or dog, you'll probably never find them if they jumped out.

Any ammonia at all is bad - anything over 0.25 ppm (the lowest color level on most test cards) is an immediate worry, and is potentially fatal to some fish. Hardy fish can survive short term exposure to that, but prolonged exposure to even the smallest traces risks permanent gill damage and chemical burns. High pH increases the toxicity of ammonia. pH is not a critical water stat - it should be stable, and similar to your tap water. Most fish will tolerate anything except extremes - 8.0 will be a lot for some fish, but should be no trouble for danios.

Fish-in cycling with hope of protecting your fish is a great deal of work and many water changes (daily or more, likely for a month or longer), and carries an increased risk of minicycles afterwards. Here's a thread detailing the process

http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...eady-have-fish/

 

[whall]

Well, firstly some good news. At various times today I have seen all 4 danios happily swimming around the top part of the tank. So they are all still alive. Quite where they go to yesterday I am not entirely sure. As I look over now there is only 1 that is visible but the rest are in there somewhere. Either they have found a hiding place that is well out of sight or I have managed to fill my tank with a whole new breed of fish, the 'quantum danio' that is able to hop in and out of our universe at will

I did read a little about the fishless cycling technique prior to starting the tank, but there is so much conflicting information out there. Some places seem to suggest that fishless cycling is the only sensible way to go, others seem to suggest it is a fad and the traditional approaches are the best. In the end I took information from a site that suggested that fishless cycling was only required if the intention was to only keep especially sensitive types of fish. Since I quite like zebra and leopard danios and had read that they are one of the more resilient types, I concluded that adding them to start the cycle was the way to go. Now, after reading some of the helpful links posted here, I am starting to think this was a mistake, but it might be too late now.

I will keep doing small water changes to keep the pollutants at manageable levels. Hopefully the fish I already have will survive the process, but if they do not, I will certainly not add any more fish to the tank, but instead try to find a source of ammonia that I can use to follow the fishless method.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

well kudos for you for doing some research before hand at least!

on this site we strongly advise people to do a fishless cycle, so for us we think that you've come to the wrong conclusion, the reason behind this is while your fish may well survive through the traditional fish-in cycle it can cause permanent respiratory problems, the ammonia basically burns their gills and respiratory system. This is not something which can be fixed with meds, it's permanent damage and will greatly inhibit the life of the animal.

My first tank was sadly cycled with fish (I knew no better) so I've experienced what it's like to have a fish damaged in this way. I had an angel who lived through cycling and at the slightest hint of trouble in the tank he'd keel over, he had to be gently nursed back to life from very minor incidents on a number of occasions and eventually passed on a couple of years later significantly smaller and younger than his life expectancy should have been. I did my best for him but I'm sorry to say he probably didn't have a very nice life, and it was my fault for putting him through the cycle.

anyway, your choice is your choice, if you want to persue with a cycle with fish we will help you to try and avert any disasters, but we would strongly advise that you return the fish to the shop and do a fishless cycle if it is at all possible.

the two links posted above give you some more info on both methods, for now just read them both through a couple of times, give us a shout with any questions you have and we'll see if we can get you to a decision one way or another.