Cycling

[juhill]

Hi

I've been fishless cycling for what seems like FOREVER! (middle of August actually but messed it up by adding too much ammonia to start)

My nitrite peaked over a week ago and my ammonia was dropping (but not quickly). My stats for the last 3days (after adding ammonia again because it dropped to 1ppm 2 days ago) have been:

Tuesday
Ammonia 1.0 or less - added ammonia
Nitrite 0

Wednesday
Ammonia 4.0 ish
Nitrite 0.25

Today
Ammonia 4.0 ish
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 15

Tank is 9 gallon. Haven't bothered testing ph much while it's cycling as I've read it goes all over the place anyway. I have soft water and last check it was around 6.4

I'm using API master for testing. I did have higher Nitrate levels around a week ago (around 50) and haven't done any water changes. I have some live plants. My cycle doesn't seem to be doing what it should be according to the pinned cycling topic on here. Any ideas?

I want fish!!!

 

[nukeonekitty]

Just wait it out, sometimes it takes a while!

 

[sinistral]

Few questions... did you test nitrates on Tuesday or Wednesday? Have you tested nitrates in your tapwater? Also, what kinds of plants do you have and how many?

 

[juhill]

Few questions... did you test nitrates on Tuesday or Wednesday? Have you tested nitrates in your tapwater? Also, what kinds of plants do you have and how many?

Hi I tested nitrates on Sunday (the 8th) and it was 20.

The time before that was on the 4th and it was 30 (I thought it had gone higher than that but I've just checked my notes).

On the 1st it was 10.

Nitrates in my tap water when I tested it when starting cycling were between 0 and 5.

I have Java Fern, Hygrophilia Rosanervis, Giant Vallis Cork, Malayan Sword and a moss ball. Did have red ivy but it died. 5 stems of each plant I think.

 

[Kevstir]

Hi m8

I had been having trouble with my cycle as well , it turned out to me a pH problem, 6 or under and the cycle will stall, mines was under 6 , i added baking soda to bring it back up to 7 and the cycle started almost instatly, might be worth checkinh yours m8 ..

Kev

ps: was the bogwood that was causing the pH to go so low..

 

[cleekdaFish]

baking soda wow

 

[juhill]

Hi m8

I had been having trouble with my cycle as well , it turned out to me a pH problem, 6 or under and the cycle will stall, mines was under 6 , i added baking soda to bring it back up to 7 and the cycle started almost instatly, might be worth checkinh yours m8 ..

Kev

ps: was the bogwood that was causing the pH to go so low.

Thanks Kev

I have bogwood. I'll test my ph tomorrow. How much baking soda did you add?

Julie

 

[xoedusk]

Do you have some type of filter in your 9 gallon?

 

[juhill]

Do you have some type of filter in your 9 gallon?

Hi

I have a biube so I think it's an undergravel filter. I know people don't seem to like them on here but I love how it looks and wanted a nice tank for my bedroom. I'm already planning my next big tank for my lounge as I'm quite restricted with regard to which fish are suitable for the biube. I don't regret getting it though as it looks lovely, even without the fish in it.

 

[Kevstir]

i added 2 teaspons to my 180l , just add a little at a time. once the tanks cycled and iv done the huge water change i plan on keeping a good eye on the pH , if it drops again im going to take the bogwood out and let it soak for a few months (already soaked for 5 weeks)..

iv just read in this months pratical fishkeeping that tetra safestart works at speeding up the cycle by a lot so going to get some as soon as i can

 

[juhill]

i added 2 teaspons to my 180l , just add a little at a time. once the tanks cycled and iv done the huge water change i plan on keeping a good eye on the pH , if it drops again im going to take the bogwood out and let it soak for a few months (already soaked for 5 weeks)..

iv just read in this months pratical fishkeeping that tetra safestart works at speeding up the cycle by a lot so going to get some as soon as i can

My tanks only 35l so I'll have to just add a tiny bit to start. Will check my ph first tho. Am really disappointed as I really thought I was almost there with the cycle when the nitrites went sky high. The bogwood has been there from day one and have just planted it up with the java fern so don't want to take that out.

I've been reading that all of those cycling help products - except biospira - don't work but if pfk reckon it does, maybe it's worth a go. I'll try anything. I'm sick of having no fish

 

[TammyLiz]

i added 2 teaspons to my 180l , just add a little at a time. once the tanks cycled and iv done the huge water change i plan on keeping a good eye on the pH , if it drops again im going to take the bogwood out and let it soak for a few months (already soaked for 5 weeks)..

iv just read in this months pratical fishkeeping that tetra safestart works at speeding up the cycle by a lot so going to get some as soon as i can

My tanks only 35l so I'll have to just add a tiny bit to start. Will check my ph first tho. Am really disappointed as I really thought I was almost there with the cycle when the nitrites went sky high. The bogwood has been there from day one and have just planted it up with the java fern so don't want to take that out.

I've been reading that all of those cycling help products - except biospira - don't work but if pfk reckon it does, maybe it's worth a go. I'll try anything. I'm sick of having no fish

Don't give up on it, you're almost there! You're getting nitrate readings that are higher than your tapwater, which means you already have some of the bacteria that you need, so you don't need biospira. The plants will be using some of the nitrates, so that is why they would go down after they've gone up. I'd try adding less ammonia next time. It is going to take a lot of bacteria to get rid of 4ppm of ammonia. If you start with only a few fish, they won't produce that much ammonia in a day. I really think you've almost got it.

 

[juhill]

Don't give up on it, you're almost there! You're getting nitrate readings that are higher than your tapwater, which means you already have some of the bacteria that you need, so you don't need biospira. The plants will be using some of the nitrates, so that is why they would go down after they've gone up. I'd try adding less ammonia next time. It is going to take a lot of bacteria to get rid of 4ppm of ammonia. If you start with only a few fish, they won't produce that much ammonia in a day. I really think you've almost got it.

Thanks TammyLiz

Ok, I'm hoping Bicarbonate of Soda is 'Baking Soda' as I added nearly a quarter of a tsp last night after testing (cheers Kev).

Ammonia 3
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 7.5
pH less than 6

added bicarb

I tested today (about 12 hours later)

Ammonia 1
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 20 (also tested my tap water today which was 0)
pH 7.2

The reason I added ammonia to bring it up to 4ppm is because I was following the pinned fishless cycling topic at the top of the beginners section. Do you think I should add less next time then?

I really hope I'm almost there because I'm beginning to get a bit despondant. I won't give up or try cycling with fish though. I'm just getting fed up with the whole thing. I'm even starting to think the plants look crap in the tank and I loved it last week...

Thanks for everyone's help anyway

 

[TammyLiz]

Oh yes, you are almost there. According to what you just typed, you have enough bacteria to get rid of 2ppm of ammonia in 12 hours. Thats not bad. And your nitrate went from 7.5 to 20 in just 12 hours. Thats a lot of nitrite that had to be converted in order to do that, you know? Unless you grossly overstock the tank, there will not be enough fish in there to make the nitrates shoot from 7.5 to 20 in just 12 hours. So there are enough bacteria. There are more for ammonia than nitrites right now but that doesn't really matter since you have so much extra of both. Someone let me know if my logic is off here but with a normal fish load like in my 55 gallon (see profile for stocking--most of those loaches are about 2-3 inches long right now) it takes more like a week for the fish waste to produce enough ammonia to get that many nitrates--certainly not 12 hours. So basically I do think there are enough to go ahead and stock with fish.

That said, you shouldn't just throw them in there with the ammonia and nitrite still showing low levels. If it were me, I'd wait until they were both 0 (I bet they'll both be 0 tomorrow, if not tonight), then do a huge water change to lower the nitrates a little (not 100% because your plants can actually use those nitrates), and add fish immediately after. You don't want the levels to sit at 0 for more than a day or so. Any time you do a fishless cycle there's a small chance that there will be a spike when you add fish, but in this case I think you have enough of a cushion to ensure that even if it did happen, it would last a very short amount of time (an hour or a day), and not be enough to harm the fish.

If you want to be extra careful you could wait until it can actually process 4ppm of ammonia in a day, but I personally think that would be a big overkill because the fish aren't going to be producing that much waste.

 

[juhill]

Oh yes, you are almost there. According to what you just typed, you have enough bacteria to get rid of 2ppm of ammonia in 12 hours. Thats not bad. And your nitrate went from 7.5 to 20 in just 12 hours. Thats a lot of nitrite that had to be converted in order to do that, you know? Unless you grossly overstock the tank, there will not be enough fish in there to make the nitrates shoot from 7.5 to 20 in just 12 hours. So there are enough bacteria. There are more for ammonia than nitrites right now but that doesn't really matter since you have so much extra of both. Someone let me know if my logic is off here but with a normal fish load like in my 55 gallon (see profile for stocking--most of those loaches are about 2-3 inches long right now) it takes more like a week for the fish waste to produce enough ammonia to get that many nitrates--certainly not 12 hours. So basically I do think there are enough to go ahead and stock with fish.

That said, you shouldn't just throw them in there with the ammonia and nitrite still showing low levels. If it were me, I'd wait until they were both 0 (I bet they'll both be 0 tomorrow, if not tonight), then do a huge water change to lower the nitrates a little (not 100% because your plants can actually use those nitrates), and add fish immediately after. You don't want the levels to sit at 0 for more than a day or so. Any time you do a fishless cycle there's a small chance that there will be a spike when you add fish, but in this case I think you have enough of a cushion to ensure that even if it did happen, it would last a very short amount of time (an hour or a day), and not be enough to harm the fish.

If you want to be extra careful you could wait until it can actually process 4ppm of ammonia in a day, but I personally think that would be a big overkill because the fish aren't going to be producing that much waste.

TammyLiz, thank you thank you! You have no idea how happy that post has made me

I am going to do a water test in a minute to check my levels. Because the cycle has been so odd, I'm not going to go mad anyway but was hoping to put in 6 harlequin rasborahs to start. Do you think this will be ok after my water change? What percentage of water do you think I should change?

Thank you again