Cycling, And The Mollies Are Sick--pls Help!

[rpowers]

I'm in the process of cycling a 10g brackish tank for mollies.

I started it 2 weeks ago with 2 dalmatian mollies, gravel and a few rocks, etc., plus an Aqueon filter (which claims to have a super-duper 3rd stage that promotes good bacteria, but I'm skeptical). I grudgingly went with plastic plants over the real thing: I wanted the fish to have places to hide without increasing the bioload. I set the heater at 79degrees, put in 3T. of aquarium salt (as recommended by the sales person), and 10ml of Stress-Coat.

For the first 5 days they did beautifully. Lots of playful swimming and fascinating mating behavior (I think the female is pregnant as a result). Then things went bad: they stopped swimming, seemed listless, and had clamped fins. I ran out and bought a test kit and checked levels: pH and alkalinity were on the high end, but I had been reading that this was actually good for mollies. Ammonia didn't register. Nitrates didn't register. But Nitrite was *through the roof*. I did an immediate water change (1/2 tank), tested again, and saw some improvement in my nitrite levels.

The next morning the nitrite levels were back up to 5 or 6 on the test strip (with a big "DANGER" label on the chart), so I did another water change, added a tablespoon of salt, and started trying to read up on what was going on. I kept reading that Mollies like a brackish tank, so I slowly added aquarium salt--maybe two T. a day--never getting the specific gravity over 1.002. I've kept it there.

I test twice a day, and the nitrite levels seem to be stabilizing at "1.0" on the chart: much better, but far from zero. Throughout all of this, my ammonia and nitrate levels have been totally flat, and my water has stayed hard. I've been giving them doses of stress coat with each water change. I bought a bit of filter sponge, cut out a small rectangle, and placed it on top of the 3rd stage of the pump where it can stay nice and wet but not inhibit the normal flow of water, all in the hopes of giving the bacteria more opportunities to settle in. I've added a bit of Stress-Zyme to jump start things. I suppose that all of this has worked to SOME extent--I'm at 1.0 every day, and have never made it back up to 6.

But the fish still look miserable. They haven't clamped their fins since I got the nitrite levels down from the "DANGER" level, but it doesn't look good: they tend to just hang out wherever the pump's current sends them, and they do very little looking around. The male was hanging in there for a while, and the female seemed to be in the worst shape, but in the past 36 hours he has had trouble keeping himself horizontal: whenever I look at him he is either lying on the bottom of the tank in a corner, or standing on his head while he drifts through the water. When he relaxes and stops swimming his tail immediately goes up (he must be exhausted). The female can keep herself upright, but is just staying as close to the heater as she can. An hour ago she drifted into the pump intake (about an inch from the heater), and got a side fin stuck. Both of them started out as vigorous eaters, but now they barely notice the food. Not surprisingly, in the first few days these guys did nothing but poop, and now nothing. They are doing an unbelievable amount of gasping. Never at the surface, just as they lie on the bottom of the tank. My filter seems to be working, though: there are tiny bubbles in the water at the output, you can hear the water filtering and trickling, and see it moving through the filter. So I'm assuming that the water is oxygenated. Also, about 6 or 7 days ago I put in two small live plants. The two fish nibbled at the plants a bit, but nothing since.

And the last thing: today I bought two new Dalmation Mollies. I don't relish hurting living creatures, but I thought that (1) seeing how healthy fish responded to the tank it its present state would be helpful, and (2) I had a weak hope that the greater numbers would help lower stress levels, mollies being community fish. Well, 10 minutes ago my husband called me to the tank and showed me that my original female molly was dead. While there I noticed that one of my new fish has the shimmies. I've never seen it before, but it's pretty unmistakeable. I just took a reading:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0 (but for the first time seems a bit pinkish, so maybe levels are on their way up)
Nitrite: 2.0
Total Hardness: 300
Total Alkalinity: 120
pH: 7.8

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[glolite]

Hi. I'm sure you have by now read up on cycling with fish because you obviously know about water changes etc. Basically the origional fish have been poisoned by nitrites and may die anyway. If you are lucky and keep doing daily 50% water changes some may survive. Try to get hold of some Seachem Prime as this does actually neutralise nitrite. Also can you get hold of some filter material from an established tank, either some used sponge or gravel or both. Pop it in your tank and this will speed up the cycling process. There's a list of people willing to donate filter material to newbies in the new to the hobby section of these forums, myself included.

Lastly, don't put any more fish in as they will overload any beneficial bacteria growing in your tank. If possible I would recommend taking the new fish back to where you got them.

Once the nitrite levels get to zero you need to test daily for ammonia and nitrite and do 25% water changes if there's any of these present.

Keep testing and water changing and good luck

 

[rpowers]

Thank you so much for your advice!

I woke up this morning expecting to find that my original male molly--the one floating upside down--had died, but he seemed a bit better. Which is to say that he was still gasping at the bottom of the tank, but at least he was horizontal and would swim around on occasion. I also found that one of my new mollies had given birth! About 18 fry! Who knew that she was pregnant? It's a first for me, and I'm surprised by how exciting the whole thing is. Man, they are *cute*!

Anyway, I went to the store and bought the SeaChem (THANK YOU for the suggestion!), a floating tank for the fry, a little plant sold specifically as a hiding spot for fry, and a fry net. I separated out the fry, checked the nitrite level (3.0), and then I did a BIG water change: about 75%. I put in the stress coat, the seachem prime, and a bit of salt. When I left the tank everything looked great, and all of the fish (fry & adult) were eating.

When I started this I had zero interest in breeding--and I certainly wouldn't have attempted it intentionally while cycling--but now that the babies are here I'm pretty excited.

I got my first fish from a carnival when I was eight, bought a fish bowl, and then graduated to a tank a year later. I kept goldfish--and loved every minute of it--until I went to college, over 10 years. This is my first tank since then, and I am stunned by how much fun it still is. I had forgotten how huge the hobby is: how much there is to learn, and do, and explore. I'm really concerned about the fish, but boy am I having fun.

And I'll say it again: man, those fry are cute!

 

[glolite]

Great news about the babies, now you're really going to have to do daily water changes Fry make quite a bit of waste but the seachem prime should help. Not sure you need stresscoat as well? Check the labels out. Also, best not to do more than 50% water changes a day as it stresses the fish too much. Once your nitrite levels are nil 25% is fine. You'll probably need a separate grow out tank for the babies in a couple of weeks otherwise the main tank will be overstocked. One inch of fish per gallon of water.
Good luck

 

[rpowers]

Thanks! The seachem prime is extremely helpful: I had a nitrite reading of 0.5 for the first time! Thanks for the tip about the 25% change. I did such a huge one yesterday because I was worried that the environment had become downright poisonous--what with one dead fish and a fish with the shimmies--and I didn't want to destroy the fry. But I'll keep things mellow from here on out.

Two questions:

I was under the impression that while you want to keep nitrite levels under control, you do need nitrite to continue the cycle. Is that true?

also, how do you know if the cycling is done? When nitrite levels drop to zero? If so, how do I know that they didn't drop just because I used too much seachem prime, as opposed to being eaten by good bacteria?

Thank you so much for your help: I think you've saved my fish!

 

[glolite]

Basically ammonia converts to nitrIte then nitrAte and this nitrAte is relatively harmless to fish whereas nitrIte is poisonous at medium to high levels and ammonia is deadly even at tiny levels. Go to the newbies section on fishless cycling for an in detail explanation.
A cycled tank will have nil ammonia and nil nitrIte because the good bacteria which have colonised the filter, gravel and rocks will eat up the waste products. Ammonia is also poisonous to plants in higher levels but unlike fish, plants can utilise waste products to grow and will reduce algae problems. Don't worry about the seachem prime, as long as your ammonia and nitrites are nil and you do regular water changes the tank will gradually cycle anyway.