Cycling An Empty Tank

[andyG44]

I have just prepared a new tank, it is huge and has 2.5" of thin gravel, some cobbles for decoration and a few plants. There is an external filter, brand new, and a heater. The water is tap treated with Tap Safe. I have also added the bacteria starters. Finally I have also added plant food in liquid form, this is done once a week.
 
I can do API test kit tests but I expect to find 0 ammonia and nitrites, on the assumption it is only the fish that poop and their rottong uneaten food that generate the ammonia. I am not sure if the plants add or remove ammonia, I hope they remove.
 
So for as long as the tank has no fish in it, I expect there will be 0 ammonia, and no reason to test either.
 
Assuming that bacteria try to grow in the gravel and inside the filter, how are they going to feed since we have no ammonia generating organisms?
 
I have read that in these cases people add in their own ammonia to feed the bacteria.
 
Can I add ammonia in this water, since I have plants in it?
 
Should I add ammonia or just let things happen?
 
Would I need to keep adding ammonia until I put fish in otherwise the bacteria would starve and die?
 
Can I just add fish food as if there were fish and let it rot?
 
 

 

[Ch4rlie]

This will help you greatly in answering most, if not all, your questions
 
Fishless Cycle
 
You will need a test kit (for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph is useful), a source of ammonia which is easily obtainable online since you are UK based, and patience
 
Live plants will be of benefit for your cycle as they will help bring in bacteria and fish appreciate live plants as well as the benefit of plants consuming some nitrate.
 
And one last note, please don't use fish food as a source of ammonia, this is a poor way of doing this, messy and very innaccurate.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I suggest you read the site article on cycling a tank.
 
I can also tell you many of the bacterial starter products contain the wrong bacteria.
 
If you do not provide nutrients for the bacteria, especially in cases of those that are dormant in a bottle, you will not revive them and they will degrade and die over time.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Can I add ammonia in this water, since I have plants in it?
 
Should I add ammonia or just let things happen?
 
Would I need to keep adding ammonia until I put fish in otherwise the bacteria would starve and die?
 
Can I just add fish food as if there were fish and let it rot?

 
Yes, you can (and should) add ammonia, even with the plants in there.  However, rather than starting at a 3ppm ammonia dose, I would suggest starting with only a 1 (but certainly no higher than 2) ppm dose.  Wait 24 hours and test for ammonia.  See how much ammonia has been processed by the plants.  Then, wait until the ammonia drops below 0.25ppm.
 
Then repeat.
 
You need to add ammonia, or else NOTHING will actually take place.  The cycling process deals with ammonia being converted to nitrite, then nitrate.  If there's no ammonia present, the entire thing will just waste time and produce nothing of value.  The bacteria only colonize if there's a food source for them.
 
 
Yes, you need to continue ammonia additions until fish are added to produce ammonia for the bacteria.  Follow the guide Ch4 linked for more information on how much and how often.
 
 
Fish food would work, but it will not be helpful in terms of understanding how close (or not) you are to completion.  Getting ammonia to add is a much easier, and more precise way, and will ultimately lead to a much faster and more reliable outcome.

 

[Akasha72]

I was just about to type the same so what Ch4rlie and TTA said 

 

[andyG44]

OK I am looking on Amazon for ammonia, plenty of choice, trying to make sure it is just ammonia and no other chemicals
 
Edit: it seems the manufacturers want to keep it a mystery, so they not list ingredients on the bottles, I cannot see any on the pictures. I know that a lot of powder and liquid chemicals come from China and in many cases they are made as byproducts of other, industrial processes, and are thus not pure but contaminated with whatever other chemicals the factory has been using. This is scary.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Correct.  No surfactants, no perfumes.
 
If you can track down this, it will make your life much easier: Dr Tim's Ammonium Chloride.  I know it is readily available via the web in the US... not sure about the UK.

 

[andyG44]

Edit 2: Sometimes, wives are great to have in the house. My wife has just found a bottle of Boots Household Ammonia! It says at the back ammonia solution 9.5% w/w

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Edit 2: Sometimes, wives are great to have in the house. My wife has just found a bottle of Boots Household Ammonia! It says at the back ammonia solution 9.5% w/w

 
 
That's perfect.  How old is it?

 

[andyG44]

Ammonia added, a bit shy of 6ml, according to the calcs for 350 lt, and after 1 hour I read ammonia about 1ppm - or thereabouts. Now we wait.
 
Edit: it looks quite old, but it was well sealed in its bottle, smelled a lot like ammonia too. And did the trick of raising ammonia.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Ammonia added, a bit shy of 6ml, according to the calcs for 350 lt, and after 1 hour I read ammonia about 1ppm - or thereabouts. Now we wait.
 
Edit: it looks quite old, but it was well sealed in its bottle, smelled a lot like ammonia too. And did the trick of raising ammonia.

 
And that's the most important thing.

 

[Gruntle]

You're in good hands.  Keep posting your results, ask as many questions as you can think of, keep following the advice given. If you follow the fishless cycle (ask here if you want clarification on anything) you'll be cycled as fast as is possible.
 
Great to see another member doing it the fishless way! I wish I'd known about it before I started my first tank.

 

[andyG44]

This morning the tank is cloudy. No smell but cloudy. I do not have covers yet so I am losing a lot of water to evaporation. I have not measured for ammonia, I will wait the full 24 hours, which will be later today.
 
One annoying aspect is I have planted a lot of plants, stems and leaves have broken off and straight to the filter's input. I will probably have to clear the filter more often than normal to remove the leaves.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Yes, dead leaves should be removed as soon as practical.
 
 
Cloudiness is quite normal in an immature tank.  A lot of times its a bacterial bloom, and will clear once they have exhausted their food supply.  Nothing to worry about.

 

[andyG44]

Cloud is green-ish in hue. Ammonia 0.5-1.0ppm. Nitrites 0. Nothing added today. Filter cleaned of a few dead leaves that had made it in. Lots of "brown" colour on the brand new sponges and some brown colour on the ceramic media which was pure white a couple days ago. This could be sand from all the brand new gravel and decorative pepples. I may have to give the filter media a very good rinse in dechlorinated water. I will check to see in a few days if the brownish colour gets worse. Otherwise I am leaving the tank alone and waiting.