Cutteri Breeding Problems?

[dave_oddballs]

hi guys,
i have these fish in my 3 foot tank, ph 7.0 all good stats.
i had 4 but the snakehead ate one, so i have 3, i believe to be 2 males and one female.
about a week ago 1 male and 1 female that seemed to have paired dug a pit at one end of the tank, i assume to lay eggs in. the female was like a pure off white colour with her black stripes and a visible genital papilla of about 2 mm, i know she was in breeding condition, as always are fed on bloodworm, brine shrimp, bits of prawn and cichlid pellets.
the male is brightly coloured with dorsal and anal fin extensions about the same length as the tail.
anyway they dug a pit, and was like showing off to each other, the other day i came down and he had absolutely battered her, i honestly thought she was dead. so i separated her and recovered rather quickly, a day or so later they was showing off to each other through the perspex divider so i thought id give them another chance, they seemed ok then in the morning the same thing happened.
they are now all separate, 1 male 1 female in the 3 foot divided by perspex and the other male is upstairs.
anyone know anything about these, or experienced similar behavior?
i really want to breed these, i only have the one female now as it was a female that got eaten, i don't know where to get any more as the guy i got mine from hasn't got any left.
just any help or info please guys!

cheers,
Dave

 

[pirate monkey]

Doh,

I just took two females to my lfs a few weeks ago...

mmm I have never experienced the male being aggressive towards the female. We bought 4, 3f 1m, within days the male and 1 female had paired up, and their courting behaviour was just fascinating! the only time I've ever seen the male being aggressive is when they have eggs/fry and he chases the other fish away.

I do know that with cichlids the male can sometimes pester the female if she isn't quite ready, in which case you need target fish (other fish of same/different species) to take the male's aggression away from the female. You could try putting the other male in, the paired male might target him instead. Mine have always been in a tank with other fish, they're separated from the others by a divider at the moment so the fry don't get eaten.

Is it definitely the male doing the battering? Have you witnessed it? Are there other possible suspects?!

have you tried removing the male and putting him in a different tank for a few day? to give the female a complete time out and claim her surroundings?

I'm sorry to hear it's not going to plan, must be really upsetting. Keep us posted as to what you do, and how you get on, I'd be interested to know - you're the only other person I know who keeps these!

My lfs had like 30 or so of them when we got ours, I don't know if they still have any but I'll check next time I'm in there, the other one may well still have the ones I took in. I live in Berkshire though so would be quite a trip for you! I am also raising some fry but they're only about 4 weeks old so pretty diddy still!

I find it surprising their aren't more of these lovely fish around...

 

[dave_oddballs]

i know you don't see them too often do you!
i got mine off a guy who breeds them, they are wild caught so mine are f1, i will get in contact to see if he might have any more available anytime soon. he is only in Blackpool so about 20 minutes away.
i don't know why not many people have them they are gorgeous fish, one of the nicest small cichlids imo.
i will try removing the male and put the female in their breeding spot and see what happens, up until now it was the female i removed.
yeah it was definitely the male beating the female, it was nothing else as there was only these two in that section, nothing else could possible of got to them, plus i witnessed it anyway.
i will put the female in the separated bit and put the 2 males together in the other so it will take their attention away, to let the female recover and settle down.
will keep this updated to let you know how it goes, i really want to breed these so will try my hardest to resolve this problem!!
cheers,
Dave

 

[pirate monkey]

If they are the only fish in there I really suggest adding some dithers/target fish that can take a beating - big tetras or barbs could do the trick!

something like silvertips, diamond tetra, bleeding hearts perhaps?

 

[dave_oddballs]

oh they are in the channa assam tank lol, they can take a beating, they were in there, then when the 2 paired off i put a perspex partition in so they could be in peace but then the battery happened lol. i have the female in the partioned bit and the 2 males in the main tank with the assams, oh and there is 2 nandus nandus leaf fish too, so there is defo enough dither fish in there, will see how it goes for know and then maybe re-introduce the female to the male in a few days!
cheers,
Dave

 

[pirate monkey]

In that case, I would put all the fish together (including the other male), and only separate the pair when they have actually spawned

As I said before, mine have always been with tankmates, it was only this last time they spawned that I separated the parents and fry so they could raise them without being eaten.

Really hope it works out for you!

 

[dave_oddballs]

just a quick question, the dominant male, who paired with the female, has a lump on his head, not a disease, a lump like a lot of cichlids get. is this normal? just iv never seen any with humps on their heads in any pictures.

 

[pirate monkey]

That's a good question! I've not seen them either, I think mine are quite young though.

I know that sajicas can have nuchal humps, they're from the same genus.

I've just found this link that suggest spilurum males can develop humps, whereas cutteri don't tend to. I'm still confused as to whether I have cutteri or spilurum!

[URL="http/www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3265"]http/www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3265[/URL]

So it may be you have spilurum instead?

edit:

could you post some pics, so we can compare?

 

[pirate monkey]

my male & female after spawning

the male's fins are actually quite red in colour.

The bars are more intense when they have spawned, and the female's throat and belly go black

I'll get some more pics up later, they're on my other laptop, thought I had them on photobucket!

 

[dave_oddballs]

i have some pics somewhere, will have to find them later, yeah i know a lot of people confuse the spilurum with cutteri! mine are defo cutteri, spilurum dont have the horizontal blue line across the body and the females don't go as white as the cutteri during spawning.
so i think its safe to say that cutteri also develop nuchal humps too.
yeah my dominant male has the red to the fins, whereas the less dominant one doesn't, saying that the less dominant male doesn't have the fin extentions of the dominant male.
the pics i have were from a while ago and the colours hadn't come out, will take some more later or in the morning of how they look now.

cheers, Dave

 

[dave_oddballs]

just went to see the guy i got the cutteri from and he will have some more available in the next week or so, so im going to get about 7 so i have 10. should get a couple of breeding pairs out of that, then sell on the rest. i will split the 3 foot in two when i get two pairs and use a 2 foot as a growing on tank. 1 step at a time though! i will go see next week if there is some ready!
this was one of mine a month or so ago, still waiting to get some decent pics of them now!

Dave