Could "NitrateMinus" be the cause of death?

[tim_in_brighton]

Hello all, sad to be trying this out under such downer circumstances, but my fish are dropping like flies and I don't know why! Umm, the basics: tank is new-ish at 6 months old, 60 litres, and all had been happy apart from beard algae growing everywhere. My stock was two dwarf gouramis, a gold nugget plec, five neon tetras and five glow-light tetras. About two weeks ago the plec jumped out somehow (I'm REALLY stumped as to how he did that) and it was much too late to do anything to save 'im, so that removed him from the recent deaths. About two days later my I found my male gourami had wedged himself between a rock and the glass during the night, and he was very dead, too. Heartbreaking for a newbie keeper with good luck up to then! To console myself I added two "Red Robbins" which aren't in my book but look like tiny bright red gouramis. They seem happy and get along great with the others. On the same visit I bought some stuff called NitrateMinus by Tetra Aqua, which I mixed in with the gravel as per the instructions. This was inspired by my high nitrate levels, even in the tap water. That was about a week ago now. Two days ago I checked the tank to find two dead Neon Tetras. I know it hadn't been long since I'd looked previously, but one was almost completely...eaten? Hmm, not sure. Then I noticed that one of the glow light tetras was missing and I've never found a trace of him. The rest of the fish got really still, except one Red Robbin who seems pretty happy. They sit and seem to struggle to breath. The female dwarf gourami, whe had fallen in with the two Red Robbins in a good way, started clinging to the surface and gasping, and not long after I found her dead too. At this point I removed the NitrateMinus pellets by suctioning them up into a net. I also did a clean, changed the filter pad and charcoal pad and cleaned the other filters in the water removed from the tank. The fish continue to look slow and heavy, particularly one Red Robbin who I don't think will be with us tomorrow. Still the other Red Robbin cruises the tank munching on algae, happy as could be.
The mechanical bits: Yes I change my water 20%ish once a week, with a dechlorinator added to the bucket and some sitting time for the water to stabilise, my readings on my eSHa Aqua quick test kit have stayed the same, although it's hard to get very specific data from it. Nitrites=0, GH=>14d, KH=about 10 and pH may have raised some from about 7 up to somewhere in the mid to high 7s. Nitrates are always hardest to pin down because the colour doesn't match any of the shades on the chart but it was still somewhere between 50 and 100. I also do amonia checks and that has read 0.
So what do you think? Could this nitrate stuff have poisoned my fish? Or could it be the other dead fish poisoning the water (I'm careful to check for bodies now, but obviously that one tetra went somewhere!). I thought a dead fish would kick up the amonia levels if it was going to cause problems, but like I say those seem to stay 0. Surely the Nitrate levels wouldn't cause such deaths, would they? I don't think anybody's a bully, they all seem pretty good natured fish. I've read a lot on this forum, particularly the scary stuff about death tanks. It's really sad, the tank was gorgeous after three months, full of fish, plants and colour. Now it's like a morgue!
Even if you can't help then please tell me some happy stories- I need cheering up!

 

[SnowyzMom]

This post should be in the Fish Emergencies Forum I think! Can a mod move it???

Oh dear that IS scary and so SAD for you. I'm sure sorry you're having that problem. I don't have any advice but I'm going to watch this thread for answers to make sure I can avoid a similar problem. It really did sound, from your fishes' behaviour like they were out of air.....I do suspect those tablets! Nitrates are GOOD, nitrites are bad.....they sure sound like the villain here.

Happy stories? Well, knock on wood, so far my 5, 10 and 25 gallon tanks are running beautifully. I took them over from my daughter when she moved, so there was aged gravel to put in them. I installed Whisper filters in all 3 and a heater on the 25. I also found some live plants, finally, though I had to drive 4 hours to a city to get them! They are thriving in all 3 tanks, the snails with them are thriving and the Pepper Corydoras in the 10 and 25 gal. tanks have that lovely green/bronze sheen to them that says they're thriving. The glowlight tetras are much happier since I doubled thier numbers from 4 to 8, the 5 black phantom tetras are real characters, love to shoot to the surface for bloodworms, the neons are quiet and polite except when they decide to chase each other back and forth at the speed of light, just for the helluvit it seems. (that's in the 25 gallon of course)

The 9 male guppies in the guppy monastery, the 10 gallon tank, just went into a feeding frenzy over a fresh pea I put in there and when I siphon out/clean my 5 gallon, the Betta in there thinks the siphon tube is an unwarranted invader and tries to take it on, he keeps a very close eye on it, even flares at it. That is HIS tank and he wants that perfectly understood. When he wants feeding he does an elaborate dance up and down the front of the tank for me. He gets so into it, his Michael Jackson moment I call it, that he won't even go get the food until he's quite sure he's finished displaying, twisting and turning and showing off!

Does that help cheer you up any?

SnowyZMom


p.s.I really REALLY hope somebody can help you, this tank sounds like a nightmare for you. I'm sure sorry about it.

 

[StrontiumDog]

Hi Tim high nitrates do kill fish, just going to type what on a test kit leaflet for u...........


Edit: Ohh crap i need some typing lessons...........basics a level of 50/100 means u need to do a water cahange and then test again

 

[gadazobe]

First welcome to the forum - the best place to get answers for your questions. Please don't despair, I'm sure that we can get to the root of the problem and once again you'll have a healthy tank full of happy fish.

First of all, I was sorry to read about your plec. Gold nuggets are stunning fish and you must have been devasted to lose him that way.

Neon tetras are not ideal first fish. They need very specific water conditions and do much better in mature tanks.

Once dead, the bodies of very small fish are very quickly consumed by the rest of the tank inhabitants and very often no trace of them can be found.

I've never heard of nitrateminus so I checked the net for it and it states that the pellets should be buried in the gravel. Is it possible that the fish ate them? Anyway, I'm always dubious about adding chemicals to the tank - the best way to control nitrate, IMO, is frequent water changes and lots of plants.

You said that you've removed the pellets, cleaned, changed the filter pads and changed the water all in one go. I hope you haven't cleaned too well and caused the tank to cycle again. Don't get any more fish for the moment, at least till your tank stabilizes - check the water daily for ammonia, feed sparingly and I'm sure that everything will be ok.

Get back to us with the results of your testing and we'll take it from there. And again, you will have a healthy tank full of colourful fish that everyone will admire.

 

[tim_in_brighton]

Hello all...an update on my situation!

But first a big thanks for you sympathies, advice, and prompt responses! What a pleasant lot, must be something about keeping fish that makes people relaxed and helpful to each other, eh?

Well I first posted on Tuesday night, Wednesday AM my wife saw the tank first and said one of the Red Robbins died in the night...I got dressed and got the net and dragged myself up to the tank only to find that he was actually alive but just so out of it he looked dead! By that afternoon everybody picked up some, especially the Red Robbins. I thought things were looking up but on Thursday I found a dead Glowlight and on Friday AM I found another dead neon. Yet everybody's looking better and swimming around, not sitting and gasping.

I had my lfs check my water, it tested high on Phosphates (which I've never been able to test for). They gave me a treatment which I'm using to drop the level, but it's going to take a couple goes to get it down without overdosing.

On Thursday afternoon I did another 20% water change, this time with water I've bought from my lfs. I intend to do another later today (Friday).

My Nitrates measure 50-100 straight out of my tap...that's why I'm switching to store-bought water. It seems the Phosphates were very high too. Wish I'd thought to check the levels out of the tap a long time ago...everyone just told me "if your nitrates are high you need to do more water changes", I've done 20% per week since I set the tank up, I've only just found I'm putting in exactly what I'm taking out!

I did mix the Nitraminus into the gravel, but it's pretty bouyant so it's hard to keep it all underneath. The bits are pretty big, probably 5mm and feel hard, plastic and waxy so I don't think anybody ate any of them whole. Maybe there were smaller bits I didn't notice in with them, or maybe they just gnawed on them a bit! I still feel like it'd be strange for this stuff to hurt my fish but this did all start within days of installing it.

I'm still not ruling out contamination by some other source. I'm really careful on that front, the bucket I use for adding water holds nothing but new fish water. My tools are all kept away from any soaps or cleaning agents, etc. But I can't rule anything out. Also I'm wondering if their could have been something in the tap water... a spike in nitrates, phosphates, or worse.

Still not totally sure what I'll do long term. I'm certainly not buying fish for at least a month, but if I keep loosing more I can only think I'll need to take survivors (?) out, either to a safe keeping at my lfs or I'll need to set up a hospital tank (but of course that would take at least a week, no?). Then I suppose I'd basically start over.

I now see why so many of you have second/hospital tanks! This is a bit gut-wrenching!

Thanks again to all you helpful advisors!

Tim