Considering Getting A Betta...

[SouthernCross]

Hi everyone!

I'm considering getting my first betta. I posted in the Tropical Chit Chat forum a few days ago - I'd bought a small tank setup intending it for a quarantine for my 150 litre community tank - but on discussion I've decided it's not appropriate for some larger fish because of its dimensions - not wide enough.

Soo...rather than take it back I decided it might make a good home for a betta! And give me an excuse to buy ANOTHER tank for a QT when I find something suitable

It's 18.5 litres (worked that out to be slightly less than 5 gallon) It is a bowfront, with dimensions 17.5" long, 13" tall, but only just 5" wide at the sides and 6.5" wide at the largest part of the bow. It has a filter in the hood and it looks like it just drops down into the water after - this concerns me as from what I've been reading that might create too much disturbance? Will this make a good betta home?

Cycling - I've been reading threads on this forum and I'm kinda conflicted...
Some are saying bettas don't need cycled tanks - large regular water changes are enough for them. Which makes me ask can I put my betta in straight away without going through a proper cycling process first? I had intended to add cuttings from a plant to grow and a handful of gravel from my community tank to speed the cycling process anyway - so my plan is for my tank to be eventually a cycled tank. But to me it sounds like a betta in an uncycled tank relying on water changes is coping with rises in ammonia/nitrites before it gets a change quite well since you guys seem to keep them using this system for years. So logically couldn't a betta go into a cycling tank provided I give plenty of larger water changes (at least 50%) until the cycle is established? I.e. wouldn't the betta in the uncycled tank be going through the same stressors as putting one in a cycling tank (yet seem to do well anyway?) Oh god I hope I'm making sense with what I'm trying to say...

So, if anyone understood that - can I safely put a betta in straightaway or should I go through the process properly (which btw I sucked at when establishing my community - thought I had done it right - put 6 fish in - BOOM minicycle again! Even after agonizing over all the stickies on fishless cycling, ) BUT - if you guys tell me the betta won't cope I will endeavour to try again...

After it's cycled I thought about putting a trio of smaller cories in too - they are acceptable tank mates yes?

Any other thoughts on my proposed setup (tank suitability, etc) or other advice to someone new to bettas would be appreciated

 

[RandomWiktor]

The tank size is perfect, and if you are concerned about the current, you can either go for a shortfin male or female, or simple cover the intake with pantyhose and put some filter foam just inside the output to lessen the current and disturbance. I've done this with aquariums with in-hood filters before and it definately slows things down enough that a betta will not be stressed, especially if the tank is very well planted (which it should be!).
As far as cycling goes? Obviously cycling is the ideal for any fish. However, bettas are hardy enough to survive full water changes. In a larger tank it will be less convenient, and you'll have to make sure you keep his cup so you can re-acclimate him to the new water after cleanings, but if cycling would take to long or is too complicated, you can definately go that route. I do not cycle any of my tanks, and I have 40-some-odd bettas each in 5g aquariums.
I'm not sure I suggest cycling with bettas. If you are doing WC's properly in a betta tank, there will not be any registerable rise in ammonia, nitrate, or nitrite inbetween cleanings; my readings are all still at zero by the end of the week, and I never let them get higher than that! Bettas' fins are very sensitive to water quality, so putting a betta through a cycle probably means at least fin rot... I'd say fishless cycling is the way to go in any instance.
In regards to cories, I believe you'd be getting towards the maximum stocking with three and a betta, and I'd be a little bit worried about how they'd handle an uncycled tank. If you DO cycle, however, they would probably be OK if you are stringent with gravel vacs and water changes. You could also try ottos, but only if the tank is cycled and mature.
Please note that depending on the betta's temperament, even small, dull bottom feeders can and do get attacked sometimes. So have a "plan B" for any tankmates in case they don't get along. Honestly, I always suggest something more like a large snail because I've heard of too many disasters when mixing bettas with other fish, even compatible species. But many people keep bettas in community very sucessfully, so I may be over-cautious. Just be sure to plant like heck and have plenty of hides, and you should be good.
Nice to see someone doing some research before buying a betta! Right on!

 

[SouthernCross]

Thanks for responding! Yes, I am a research Nazi I think I go a bit over the top sometimes with checking up on EVERYTHING I do with my fish...

I absolutely intend to keep this tank as a cycled tank - it has a filter, so it makes sense to! My main concern/query was whether a betta is hardy enough to survive cycling - I thought they very well might be since the way some people keep them in uncycled tanks. I know you say their levels are at 0 when you measure them - but surely you agree that if there's no bacteria to rapidly control it - every time the fish goes to the toilet it is adding waste to the tank and levels would rise as a result - maybe not detectable if you're especially vigilant like yourself - but they would still be there and yet the bettas survive this. That's what made me think it was a possibility to put a betta in while a tank was cycling with plenty of water changes. But I'm not sure now if I should try to fishless again (even if I suck! ) with what you say about finrot.

I wouldn't put the cories in until the tank was cycled - I know they're quite delicate, so I'd wait until it was. I know it's starting to push the stocking - but everyone says not to keep cories in groups of less than 3 - wouldn't want them to be lonely. If there were problems and I needed to separate them from a cranky betta they could always go live in my community - I have some bronze cories in there already (they're a larger breed, I'm looking at picking a smaller type for the betta tank) - so have a plan B for that scenario!

Good to hear I can sort out the current that way if it's a problem. I have about 7 different types of plants in my community so I'll be taking some pieces of some of those to decorate this tank with. I've mostly only seen the longer-finned types of bettas in my LFS (Australia just doesn't seem to have the variety other places do) so I guess I'd have to take extra care with the current.

I'm still very keen to hear other's thoughts, especially about the cycling issue.

 

[bymauldin]

Personally, I've never cycled a tank before putting a betta in it. I know, call me stupid, but I'd prefer mis-informed. I've always just acclimated the betta to the water in my bowl when I get it home. Then I perform 100% water changes every week. If I see it's going to be a little longer than a week before I can get to doing a 100% change then I usually do a 50% half way through the week. I'm not saying this is the best way to treat a betta. I've actually got my betta in a 1.5 gallon tank right now with no filter or heater....However, I'm planning on getting a 2.5 or 5 gal with a heater and filter soon. If you have the time, resources, and patience to cycle your tank before you put the betta in I would most certainly do it...just for the sake of the betta!! However, they will survive without you cycling a tank first. At least all of my bettas have without any ill effects.

 

[dsingleton]

I don't currently have any Betta's in filtered tanks and so don't cycle them. If you are using a filter then I would definitely cycle the tank, without doubt!

 

[SouthernCross]

Yep, I get that they can survive in an uncycled tank. But can they survive in the tank while it is cycling too?

But by the sounds of things its probably best if I at least try to fishless cycle it first.

 

[RandomWiktor]

I think the main problem with cycling with bettas is that cycling inevitably requires having the ammonia levels slightly elevated, and bettas do not handle ammonia well, particularly the fins. I like your plan of doing a fishless cycle.

 

[OohFeeshy]

It won't matter a great deal whatever you do- bettas aren't very big waste producers and the levels will be minimal when you add water changes into the equation. And considering the considerably large amounts of ammonia used in fishless cycling, iMO theres not much point- you're spending several weeks building up enough bacteria in an empty tank for far more fish than the tank can hold without it being physically overcrowded only to put in a fish that produces so little waste you kill off most of the bacteria.

 

[SouthernCross]

Well....I thought I was conflicted before,

OohFeeshy, have you personally cycled a tank with a betta in it before without problems like finrot? I kinda understand what you mean about getting tons of abcteria for one little fish...

I was going to put in a bit of gravel from an established tank running on an UGF and a HOB, and I was even considering taking some sponge from my HOB filter (I have two sponges in there instead of sponge+carbon) and cutting the second sponge in half and putting a piece it in amongst the filter floss that came in the hood filter for my new tank (in the space for the carbon).

I know its not a perfect 'clone' but it would be pretty close right? I mean, would it make a huge difference than putting a fish in with a brand new filter and tank? I mean, if like you say bettas produce minimal waste, would I have close to the number of bacteria I need doing it that way?

 

[OohFeeshy]

OohFeeshy, have you personally cycled a tank with a betta in it before without problems like finrot? I kinda understand what you mean about getting tons of abcteria for one little fish...

Sure. Don't forget about keeping bettas in unfiltered tanks- no health problems there (well, no more than in any other tank situation) and there's the same sort of ammonia build up before water changes as would happen with your tank, probably more because of the larger volume of your tank to dilute the waste. And anway, if the ammonia does rise a bit high, just do a small water change.

 

[SouthernCross]

Oh ok!

So, in line with the dreaded 'cycling with fish' method - would I just do small regular - say 20-30% every two days - until I get my Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 and present Nitrate readings? Then go back to normal weekly/fortnightly water changes once a cycle seem to be established?

Normally I'd imagine if I 'seed' the tank like I plan to this wouldn't take very long...but if bettas are minimal waste producers am I looking at a lengthier time to finish cycling? How long has it taken you starting from scratch/otherwise? My tank is like 4.9 gallons...I know things are harder to keep stable in small tanks.

 

[FISHBREEDER]

I breed bettas, currently have over 200 of them. No need to build a huge amount of bacteria for the filtration if you 1: are keeping a low waste fish, 2: are going to be good about water changes. My one disagrement is non filtered tanks. ALL TANKS SHOULD HAVE SOME (even if its minute) FILTRATION! Yes we all know bettas can breath air from the surface, being from rice patties bla bla bla bla... Okay common knowledge aside. Bettas still breath through the water, the surface breathing is not an excuse to put the fish in worse conditions. They still need some ( ANY ) small filtration just to keep water moveing, Oxyogen in the water. This will make your fish a lot less stressed!