Confused

[puffin3]

I'm totally new to keeping goldfish/tropicals. I've read some library books but I can't understand a few things: I have a new 10 gal tank with a carbon filter hanging on the back and five small gold fish who the pet store person said to keep in the tank for 4-6 weeks to stablize (I presume that means cycling) the water. Then I can add some tropicals and plants and return the gold fish fish to the store but we are now too attached to the gold fish so we are buying a 33 gal tank for the tropicals. The water I used came for the grocery store in 5 gal plastic jugs. It supposed to be 'Ionized' whatever that means. I have an amonia and ph kit and the water is crystal clear and the amonia is lessening to nothing (I test every 2 days) and the ph after a week now is about 6.8. I haven't bought a Nitrate/Nitrite test kit yet. Everthing seems to be going well so my questions are: If the water is OK why should I change the carbon filter as they say on the package about every 4 weeks. I thought the filter had 'good' bacteria on it. Why would I want to throw away 15% or so of the perfectly good 'cycled' water as I was told to do at the pet store and have read in some books, and replace it with non-cycled water? I asked at the pet store and was told they don't really know why themselves.

The tank is beside the TV and when we turn on the TV even with low volume the goldfish all move to the side of the tank that's farthest away. Are goldfish and tropicals that noise sensitive?
I really appreciate being able to ask these questions of people with lots of knowledge. I'm afraid there will be more questions to come.
Thanks

 

[miniman]

Im only new myself but I can tell you that the reason you do water changes is to lower the amount of nitrates in the water. Ammonia is broken into nitrites and then that is broken down into nitrates. Nitrates can be harmful in high amounts.

Also water changes allow you to hoover the tank and get rid of lots of old crud from the bottom.

I believe im also right in saying that water doesnt become 'cycled'. The bacteria is on the filter media (mainly) and not in the water itself.

 

[bymauldin]

Your filter does have good bacteria on it once it's cycled and I would not recommend changing it every 4 weeks. The store and filter companys suggest that because they want a sale. You could rinse your filter every 3-4 weeks in old tank water (never water from the tap!!) but I wouldn't replace it unless I noticed a difference in water flow from the filter or unless it was in bad shape. Just check it periodically.

 

[puffin3]

Thankyou for the help. It's now clear to me about the nitrates and the filter. Now I only have 998 questions left

 

[loachman]

The carbon in the filter will eventually stop working correctly as a chemical sponge and should be changed. It does depend on your filter model as to how to best do it. If you had an external filter with various trays for example (a Fluval 204 or similar model), you'd only change the carbon and not remove any floss, ceramic beads, etc.

Removing water will not disrupt the cycle in a tank, as long as the water you use to replace it is dechlorinated. The bacteria all live on surfaces, so there is very few actually in the water. Removing the water/vaccuming has the benefit of taking out nitrate which is not broken down by the bacteria in the tank, adding back trace nutrients that are important for planted tanks, and removing solid wastes.

Fish can hear, but don't worry about the TV too much. If the TV really hurt them, 90% of the setups in the US/UK wouldn't work.

 

[vinylman]

If you're serious about keeping the goldfish, you'll need a MUCH bigger tank than the 10g. Goldfish are some of the messiest fish around, and need a much bigger tank than tropicals.

 

[Tessla]

Since you're cycling with fish and five goldfish is quite the bioload for a ten gallon tank, I'd be doing daily ten percent water changes. The water changes not only get rid of nitrates, but the excess ammonia and nitrites that build up while you're cycling. Right now you're slowly building up colonies of bacteria that will convert ammonia to nitrites, and then another bacteria that convert nitrites to nitrates. Both ammonia and nitrites are much more toxic than nitrates and in a fully cycled tank should be at zero the entire time. You'll want a good (preferably liquid, not dip strips) test kit that checks for all three. Check out some of the articles on cycling and fishless cycling for setting up your new tank and understanding the process better.

You probably don't need to use bottled water in your tanks, that will get expensive over a few water changes. Pretty sure if the water you got is deionized water, that isn't the best for fish since it wouldn't contain any buffers to stabilize pH. Tap water is fine for most fish so long as you add a dechlorinator first. If you have very hard water don't be suprised if you get a higher pH reading than a "perfect 7," most community tropicals are fine so long as the pH is stable. (For instance, mine is 8 from the tap, but it stays very stable in my tanks.)

I'm assuming the pet store probably gave you comet goldfish to start your tank up with. Bare minimum for fancy goldfish is usually about 30 gallons for the first fish and ten for each one after that, which gets you up to 70 gallons. Comets get much bigger and are more active, they're best kept in ponds though you may be able to get away with two in a 75 gallon tank. They are fast growers if not stunted by small tanks with poor conditions and can easily get to a foot long in only a couple of years. Unless you have the space for a very large tank over a hundred gallons, you'll probably want to find someone with a pond or take them back to the store.

That's not saying you shouldn't go for a 33 gallon for tropicals, it would be much easier to stock and maintain water quality in. Your ten gallon could house some small rasboras or tetras, dwarf corydoras and maybe a betta, but your options will be very limited.

Hopefully that'll help you avoid most of the common new tank problems, good luck!

 

[puffin3]

Thanks for your info.
So the 'good bacteria' is actually growing on all the surfaces ie. rocks/gravel in the tank and on the water surface and the carbon filter is primarily there to remove amonia. Changing 10% of the water daily or so removes amonia and nitrates. Do I FINALLY have this correct?
Thanks again for answering what are very basic questions. Don't worry, once 'I get the basics' I'll move on to more interesting questions

 

[mark.w.jones]

Thanks for your info.
So the 'good bacteria' is actually growing on all the surfaces ie. rocks/gravel in the tank and on the water surface and the carbon filter is primarily there to remove amonia. Changing 10% of the water daily or so removes amonia and nitrates. Do I FINALLY have this correct?
Thanks again for answering what are very basic questions. Don't worry, once 'I get the basics' I'll move on to more interesting questions

Nope. The majority of your bacteria are found in the filter. Most filters contain a combination of things to help them run efficiently. Ceramic media (white tubes) which have a large surface area to be colonised by beneficial bacteria. This is where most of your bacteria are found. There are usually also one or two types of sponge somewhere. Usually a quite course one and a finer one. These are also home to a lot of bacteria + help to sieve out fine particles. Finally, you may have some white filter floss (like cotton wool). This is usually very dense. It's main job is sieving out very small particles from your water. You may also have a carbon filter knocking about in there. Usually its a black sponge or plastic case containing black gravelly stuff. This is not needed. Your best bet is to remove it and replcae with another sponge. Hope that helps

Some bacteria are found within gravel, on ornaments and in the gunk found in your filter tubes, but not much.

If you are cycling with fish then your best bet is 10 - 20% water changes every day or every other day until you get ammonia and nitrite readings of 0ppm. Then you can think about adding your next group of fish.

 

[puffin3]

This is where I'm REALLY getting confused: The filter is an 'Aqua-Tech EZ-Change' cartridge with "Improved Carbon". The package says for "best results" change the cartridge every 2 to 4 weeks. If most of the 'good bateria' is on this cartridge why on earth would I want to throw it away and put a new cartridge in the holder that has no good bacteria on/in it? It sounds illogical. At that rate I'd never have a 'cycled' tank. What am I missing here please. I'm getting what seems to be conflicting information

 

[Rillan]

I get why your confused. I started fish keeping 3 weeks ago and i am useually completly lost. From what I have learnt the good bacteria grows in the filter. Doing loads of water tests is bad for your tank because it constantly takes the good bacteria away. Ive been told that doing a 50% water change every 6 weeks is the best. Plus doing a water change every day will disrupt your fish. As for the crud on the bottom of the tank I use cat fish to keep it clean as they are bottom feeders. Sorry I couldent be much help.

 

[bymauldin]

This is where I'm REALLY getting confused: The filter is an 'Aqua-Tech EZ-Change' cartridge with "Improved Carbon". The package says for "best results" change the cartridge every 2 to 4 weeks. If most of the 'good bateria' is on this cartridge why on earth would I want to throw it away and put a new cartridge in the holder that has no good bacteria on/in it? It sounds illogical. At that rate I'd never have a 'cycled' tank. What am I missing here please. I'm getting what seems to be conflicting information

What you're missing is what's already been stated. You shouldn't change your cartridge every 2 to 4 weeks! The only reason the package says that is to make you continually buy their product. I would suggest just rinsing your filter with old tank water every 2-3 weeks. You're right if you continually change your filter you will be throwing away good bacteria and causing your tank to do a mini-cycle. If you notice your filter is clogging, running slowly, looking ratty...then change it. I'm not an expert though so maybe you'll get a more definitive answer from someone else about exactly how frequently you should change it, but I'd look more at 8-10 weeks. That's just me though!

 

[Zeoth]

I usually change a quarter of the water every week. The fish are still healthy.

 

[Tessla]

I've got a couple of filters that run similar cartridges (not my choice, boyfriend originally set up the tank.) It's a fluffy white bag filled with activated carbon and closed with a plastic clip on top, right? You can actually fill them with media other than activated carbon if you'd like, the stuff is really only useful for removing medications from the water. I leave them in, cleaning them in used tank water once a week until they clog up quickly enough that cleaning weekly doesn't work. They usually last at least three months. Hopefully your filter also has a little plastic mesh piece that doesn't get replaced, if not you might want to add something to it. This piece gets colonized with bacteria so that when you do have to replace the cartridge, you don't get rid of all the bacteria.

Personally, I'm more a fan of the filtration setup AquaClear uses, much more logical. These come with a sponge layer, an activated carbon layer (I leave it out unless removing meds) and a layer of ceramic media on top. When changing filter media, you only replace one piece at a time so you never kill off your bacteria colony. You can also buy filter media much cheaper this way as you aren't stuck using the factory cartridges.

I get why your confused. I started fish keeping 3 weeks ago and i am useually completly lost. From what I have learnt the good bacteria grows in the filter. Doing loads of water tests is bad for your tank because it constantly takes the good bacteria away. Ive been told that doing a 50% water change every 6 weeks is the best. Plus doing a water change every day will disrupt your fish. As for the crud on the bottom of the tank I use cat fish to keep it clean as they are bottom feeders. Sorry I couldent be much help.

A few corrections, hopefully will clarify a few things for all.

Loads of water tests won't hurt a thing, you only need a very small sample of water to do a test, and in a cycling tank you'll want to check your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings frequently. (Pretty sure you meant to say water changes, but don't want to scare people off of doing water tests!)

As for doing water changes, a large 50% water change infrequently will be more disruptive and likely to kill fish than a small 10% change once a week. By doing water changes more frequently, you're also not allowing nitrates (or in a cycling tank, ammonia and nitrites) to build up to levels that will stress and possibly kill your fish: much worse than startling them with a water change. In a cycling tank, you'll want to do small daily or every other day changes because the ammonia and nitrite buildup is so much more toxic than the nitrates that build up in a mature tank. It will take the tank longer to cycle, but your other option is a faster cycle with lots of dead fish. Water changes look more stressful on the fish, but it's really the invisible stuff that harms them the most.

Crud on the bottom of the tank should be scooped out, no scavenger is going to clean it all up. Cleaning syphons are a great investment, they're cheap and let you clean the gunk out of your tank frequently without disrupting your tank as much as other methods. If you haven't got one to get gunk out while doing water changes, you could net it out but it isnt' as effective.

It's a constant learning experience if you've been at it for three weeks or ten years, with a little work you'll end up with a successful tank!

 

[mark.w.jones]

I get why your confused. I started fish keeping 3 weeks ago and i am useually completly lost. From what I have learnt the good bacteria grows in the filter. Doing loads of water tests is bad for your tank because it constantly takes the good bacteria away. Ive been told that doing a 50% water change every 6 weeks is the best. Plus doing a water change every day will disrupt your fish. As for the crud on the bottom of the tank I use cat fish to keep it clean as they are bottom feeders. Sorry I couldent be much help.

That is some seriously poor advice im afraid. Mostly inaccurate as well. As a rule of thumb I never offer advice that i'm not completely sure of or that I have not seen backed up many times on here by other people. Also, if i'm not completely certain that what i'm saying is correct I will say so and suggest that they wait for someone with more experience.