Complete Newbie Here....

[HooleyHoop]

Hi,

I've just invested in a 200L tank set up and this is the very first time I have kept fish of any kind. A friend who has kept fish for a long time has been helping me get set up and understand things a bit more.

After leaving the tank for just over a week on his recommendation I invested in some Dwarf Honey Gouramis, congo tetras and sunset platys (4 of each). These were recommended to me by my local shop as good starter fish. Once these guys had been in for a couple of weeks and looking decidedly settled I went out again looking in particular for a catfish and plec. I got a hoplo catfish and the plec with no trouble. At the same time, my friend suggested I get hold of a few parrot cichlids. Now I know lots of people are against such fish as they are basically engineered and dyed to look as they do but I was happy to obtain these on recommendation from my friend.

Thse guys have now been in since sunday along with the rest and two days ago I came home to two headless congo tetras. Now initially I assumed a parrot had attacked them and killed them but this morning after working a graveyard shift at work I came home to find that the fish had whitespot. One parrot in particular is covered completely. I also noticed two more casualties - a platy and a tetra. This time they were intact so I am assuming the whitespot got them quick style.

I've followed the advice on here about treating whitespot and have removed the carbon from my external filter, turned the heat up to 84 and put in slightly less than the dosage of the treatment as I have the catfish in there and the bottle of treatment said reduce the dosage if there are catfish.

So basically I'm just after guidance in general. What is the mix of fish like? Should I be keeping tetras and parrots together?

I'm hoping I have the treatment well in hand on the whitespot and if anything its increased my confidence having to delve into something like this.

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can give on fishkeeping in general.

Chris

 

[WILDER]

Been given some terriible advice, congo tetra and gourami are not starter fish, they isnt many that are hardy enough for a cycle.
Added to many fish to soon.
Whitespot turn temp up to 30.
Increase aeration as the high temp and med reduce 02 in the water.
Remove black carbon if you use it.
What are your water stats in ammonia,nitrite,nitrate, and ph.

 

[backtotropical]

You have been given bad advice. Leaving the water for a week does nothing at all. What you need to do is cycle the filter BEFORE adding fish. There is a link to a very helpful thread about cycling in my signature.

Do you have a test kit? If not, you need to get one. You need to be able to test for PH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate.

Your fish are most probably suffering whitespot because of ammonia in the tank, which is highly toxic to fish.

If you can give the fish back to the shop, i would recommend that you do so, and we can help you to get set-up properly and prepare you to keep your fish healthy.

Sorry you were given bad advice. It happens all too often unfortunately.

 

[HooleyHoop]

Thanks to both yourself and Wilder for the replies.

When I say I left the tank for a week I should have been a bit more accurate. I bought some Nutrafin Cycle treatment and the first dose of this was put in when the tank was initially filled and filter turned off etc. I then gave it a second dose the day before I put the first fish in. Since then it has had its weekly maintenance dosage of this treatment. My friend also said to feed the empty tank, I was sceptical about this but did that anyway with the flakes I have.

I'm sure this probably still isnt enough but thought I better clarify what I had written. I don't have a test kit but will be buying one as soon as I can get out of the office today. What are the acceptable readings for the PH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate?

I have got in touch with the shop today and unfortunately they won't accept the fish back due to the whitespot. Not sure if they are just trying to pull a fast one here as they know I am a newbie but I can understand them not wanting to take them back. Also I dont have the fortune of having a quarantine tank of my own (and unfortunately this is not within budget either at the moment). As a result I somehow need to get the fish healthy and the tank healthy whilst minimising the loss to the fish I have in there at the moment.

Any help on this would be fantastic

chris

You have been given bad advice. Leaving the water for a week does nothing at all. What you need to do is cycle the filter BEFORE adding fish. There is a link to a very helpful thread about cycling in my signature.

Do you have a test kit? If not, you need to get one. You need to be able to test for PH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate.

Your fish are most probably suffering whitespot because of ammonia in the tank, which is highly toxic to fish.

If you can give the fish back to the shop, i would recommend that you do so, and we can help you to get set-up properly and prepare you to keep your fish healthy.

Sorry you were given bad advice. It happens all too often unfortunately.

 

[merry78]

Hi, sorry to hear about your unlucky beginnings, it happens to lots of people though.....
Did you read the fishless cycling link in back to tropical's signature? There is also a fish-in cycling thread (you are currently doing a fish-in cycle) at the top of the new to tropical forum (i think it's titled something like " cycling- two methods in one thread" or something similar).

Acceptable readings are:
Ammonium: 0 at all times- any level of ammo is toxic to your fish... (you will probably have a reading for ammo as you already have fish in the tank but have not yet cultured bacteria to convert it).
Nitrite: 0 at all times (this is the second step of the cycle, ammo is converted to nitrite, then to nitrate, so if your reading is 0, but you have ammo, you are right at the beginning of the cycle, if you have a reading for nitrite, then you are in the middle of the cycle).
Nitrate: preferably less than 20, but definitely less than 100. (you tap water may contain some nitrates, but nitrate is the end product of the cycle, which you then remove with water changes.)

You will need to do daily water changes at least, preferably twice daily, until your tank is fully cycled, which may take weeks. This will give your fish a chance to survive the (probably) toxic conditions in your tank. Super clean water will help your fish through their whitespot too (which is probably caused by stress from water quality).

Unfortunately, bottled cycling products do not work. At all. Not even a little bit!

I hope this is of some use to you, check out all the cycling links you can find on the forum, and all will become clear.

Best of luck, merry.

 

[HooleyHoop]

Hi merry,

I have just been out today and bought a test kit. I followed the instructions carefully and the results are:

Ph: 7.2
Ammonium: 2.0
Nitrite: 2.0
Nitrate: 10

No obviously the Nitrite and Ammonium readings are an obvious worry based on your last post and I have looked for the "fish-in" cycle thread but not found it. All I could find was the fishless cycle threads.

How do I go about reducing these values? The test kit said for the Ammonium level I should do a 25% water change. Is this the best option to take first? If I do the water change then do I literally use standard tap water or do I need to treat the new water first?

Thanks again for all your help peeps, you are making this a good learning experience for me and hopefully making me a better fishkeeper

Chris

 

[george4]

Hi

Had exactly same problem when i started my 190 litre 1 year ago. It was after i put catfish in that my fish came down with whitespot. luckily the shop the catfish came from agreed to replace the lot. I would try to keep fish of similar size if i were you. good luck

 

[backtotropical]

Hi, sorry i should have said. One of the things that every fishkeeper should have is a good dechlorinator. Your LFS will sell them.

You will need this for your water changes. You just add the stated dose to the fresh water which is going into the tank, and it detoxifies the chlorine and chloramine, making the tap water safe to add to your tank.

Meantime, ammonia being at 2 is too high. I advise you to boil some water and then let it cool. This is the fastest way to get rid of the chlorine without dechlorinator. Use that water to do a 50% water change. Do another one tomorrow.

You are aiming to keep ammonia and nitrite both under 0.25. Do as many water changes as it takes. Dont worry about nitrate for now. Good luck.

 

[HooleyHoop]

Thanks for that. Is 50% water advisable whilst the fish are suffering from ich? Obviously they are already stressed and I dont want to stress them much more......

Off to my LFS first thing to get dechlorinator...

 

[backtotropical]

2ppm of ammonia will stress your fish a lot more than a 50% water change. Just make sure you boil / dechlorinate the water first and it will be fine.

 

[HooleyHoop]

2ppm of ammonia will stress your fish a lot more than a 50% water change. Just make sure you boil / dechlorinate the water first and it will be fine.

Ok. Well that took a heck of a long time boiling the water up but I am glad I did it. I did the 50% as you suggested last night and I have done another 50% this afternoon albeit using a dechlorinator this time


My levels are now:

Ph - 7.0
Ammonium - 1.0
Nitrite - 1.0
Nitrate - 10


I lost another sunset platy whilst out buying the dechlorinator today which is a shame but the rest do seem to be recovering more or less. The congo tetra has virtually no whitespot, the catfish less than yesterday and the pink parrot just some on his tail fins. The purple parrot however is still covered head to tail in it and I'm preparing myself for the worst with him. My gourami and Micah the plec (sorry but a Man City fan and Micah seemed a good name) have remained unaffected throughout with no visible signs and no scratching either.

Cheers

Chris

 

[backtotropical]

Glad to hear you are making progress. Are you still treating for whitespot? Which treatment are you using?

edit: I just noticed that you are a newbie. Welcome to the forum.

 

[HooleyHoop]

Hi,

Yes I'm still treating for the whitespot. Using WS3. I was intending to treat for a good week after the spots have gone from all the fish to make sure its out of the water. Is that something you would suggest>\\

Thanks

Chris

 

[backtotropical]

Yes. That definitely is something which i would suggest. Just be aware that if you do a water change whilst medicating, you are removing some of the medication from the tank. The reason for the whitespot in the first place was probably the ammonia level so that must be addressed, but just bear it in mind. Maybe try to add medication just after a water change for best results.

 

[HooleyHoop]

Hi all,

Just to let you know that the whitespot has now cleared on all but one parrot cichlid - the poor little guy is still covered in it.

My water stats prior to a 15% change yesterday were:

Ph - 7.0
Ammonium - 1.0
Nitrite - 2.0
Nitrate - 10

The Nitrite level has risen but I'm hoping that this will result in a lower Ammonium level when I test tonight. I'm also going to keep doing a 15% change every day until I'm happy that the tank is cycled correctly.

Thanks for the help, you have made this much easier for me

Chris