Compatibility in a new aquarium

[KeddyPie]

Hello! I apologise if I'm posting this in the wrong place, sometimes it's hard to decide just where things should go (the first 2 paragraphs arent really important, I just like to write a lot. Feel free to skip to the bottom, you wont miss much!)

I'm not new to fish, but I am new to KEEPING fish. I've been doing research on lots of fish for a few years, took an "Introduction to Aquatics" environmental class in school, probably go to our local and very very good fish store once a week just to watch the fish, see how the different ones act, and talk to the employees about what's what. But to this date, I've never had a real aquarium. 5-gallons with a very minimal amount of fish has been my limit thus far, simply because I don't have much time or space. Right now, I've just got a 5 gallon with my one very healthy betta fish and a small male cherry shrimp. They're doing very well.

I recently (as in today) decided for SURE that I am going to get a larger aquarium. I've wanted to for a LONG time, and have even had my heart set on what fish I want. I was aiming for a 30 gallon tank, but decided for space reasons to get a 20 gallon instead. It will be set up with white sand, some sort of filter (possibly under gravel, but I'm not positive) and all the basics. For now it wll be very sparcewith the 4 or 5 small fake plants I have in my 5 gallon, along with the one very large aquarium water lily I've been growing just for the occasion. I'll slowly be adding more live plants, most of which stay within a 4 inches of the ground. I like having open space at the top so I can really see the fish when they're eating.

Anyhow, actual question: Those with experience more than I: I want to know if the following fish will be ok in a tank the size of 20 gallons. Because I've been planning for a 30 gallon, I've had to change my numbers around, and I'm a little unsure if my tank will be a little too crowded. Here is what I want to get:

1 Betta (already in my posession, a rather non-aggressive one)

1 male and 1 female cherry shrimp (have a young male already)

1 Dojo Loach, 2 if space permits.

4 lemon tetras. I might at a later date choose another kind of tetra instead of lemon's, either way: Tetra's that don't grow ever 2 inches, and don't have a lot of bright colors.

I don't think the fish I've chosen should bother my cherry shrimp, I know my betta doesn't mind him at all. My fist purchase would be the 1 or 2 Dojo loaches and the other shrimp, and the addition of some schooling tetra's will not be until 2-3 weeks later. I'm planning on cycling the new tank for about 1 week, then adding my already existing fish and getting the new additions a few days later. Is this long enough?

So, what do you think? Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated, when it comes to my choice in amount of fish, filtration, or what kind of tetra's. I know somtimes n00bs miss HUGE things, that should be obvious to an experienced fish keepers. That's why I'm posting first, so if I miss something like that, I can be forwarned. Thanks!

-Katy (No, I don't always post this lengthy, so if I stick around don't dread my posts

 

[Annastasia]

I think the compatibility is fine but I am not sure how nippy Lemon Tetras are. However, I would consider getting more Tetras if they will work, because they are schooling fish. And perhaps if you didn't want the dojos (You probably won't see them much and they might get a little big), you could consider getting a small school of Cories?

Edit: Thanks DwarfGourami, wasn't sure about Lemon Tetras nippy-ness. Maybe consider Glowlights? Those seem pretty peaceful. Or ask the Characins and Cyprinids section about non-nippy Tetras.

 

[dwarfgourami]

Afraid I have no personal experience of them, but I have heard that lemon tetras are fin-nippers, so they might not go well with your betta.

 

[KeddyPie]

I'm not so fond of Cories, and I REALLY had my heart set on the Dojo's Even if I wont see much of them. I might even consider getting a larger tank if a 20 gallon is too small just for the dojo's, that is most of the reason I wanted a larger aquarium to begin with. I've been watching them at the fish store, and looking up info... I just really love them!

As for the tetra's, I posted in the tetra section of the board Thanks for the info!

Katy, growing a little less n00bish with every post

 

[Annastasia]

20 could be okay..but I'd say go bigger, and just give them more room. A 30 would be fine, if you could get there. Bigger is always better. They are great fish, some will even eat from your hand. And make sure to give them caves and such to hide in. They love their little dens.

Edit: They also can't be kept in high temps...under 76F, preferably.

 

[KeddyPie]

My tank isn't heated, simply because my room rarely gets below 70 degrees, even in the winter, and often gets up to 85 on really hot days.. though never for long. It sucks for me, but it seems to be very good conditions for my current fishy, who is probably the healthiest betta I've ever seen. Not so good for my poor ratties, I have one heck of a time keeping them cool, and they often end up in other rooms of the house just for the air conditioning. In the event that I get what I've always wanted (an air conditioner) I'd purchase a heater. Probably should have mentioned temperature in my initial post

I'll ask my mum about just using the 30 gallon we have instead of buying a new 20 gallon (I hesitate saying this as it makes me sound like a 12 year old, but my mother has the final decisions on a lot of these things ) 20 is optimum for me, but for the Dojo's... I would consider dragging the 30 gallon down our attic stairs. Thanks for the info

 

[sylvia]

Most tetras will nip bettas. Even those considered most peaceful like neons will shred betta fins. It's probably best to go with some white clouds or some kind of small rasbora (which actualy tend to nip less than tetras). Either way, you need a group fo at least 6 because they are schooling fish.

Is there any chance, BTW, of your just keeping the betta in his 5 gallon and putting something else in the 20? And also, add the female cherry to the 5 gallon so you need not worry about the shrimp getting eaten in the larger tank by other fish. That would open up your options considerably. You could then get the lemon tetras safely, the dojo and some other fish as well.

A single dojo would be ok but I think you may find, as it grows, it'll eat your shrimp. You may also eventualy need to upgrade the tank as dojos get pretty big with time.

The cycling process takes much longer than one week. As you have a tank already set up, you can use it to speed things up. Do a fishless cycle using either fish food or pure ammonia. Read the links in my signature about cycling, fishless cycling and the others would be helpful I'm sure as well. I figure, if you've been doing research on this for a long time, a few mroe articles won't hurt.

Once you've udnerstood how to fishless cycle, start it off but, at the same time, borrow some filter media from your 5 gallon to put in the newly set-up and, now cycling, tank. That'll introduce some good bacteria and your cycle should be complete in a couple of weeks at most.

 

[Annastasia]

Sylvia's idea is a good one, keeping the Betta in the 5 gallon.

However, I disagree with one thing. You can't keep one. Dojos like to be in groups, like other Loaches, I would not recommend just getting one. I'd start off with a bigger tank, get 2 or maybe even 3 (though that's probably pushing it), and even then you still might have to upgrade as Dojos get big. According to the profile on this site about Dojos, the common ones that are greyish get to about 6", while the Golden ones get much bigger, about 12".

 

[KeddyPie]

The ones I want are grey. They're young right now, 3-4 inches. This project is getting more in-depth then I wanted.

I'm willing to change a lot of things around, such as the fish I have and the amounts and the tank set up... But there are a few things I'm not going to change, simply because of space issues and what I really want in a fish tank.

When I get this new tank, whether it be a 20 or 30 gallon, the 5 gallon is going. I'm not looking for a new fish tank, I'm looking for a drastic upgrade. Even if it means that I can't have the tetra's I've wanted because of the fin-nipping, the Betta is going to be in this new tank ^^ I'm doing some reseach on Danio's now, simply because of the-wolf's persistance If I don't see a huge problem with them, I might get some in place of my tetra's.

If the loach is going to be a problem with anything, I'm willing to go out of my way to make things work out. I'm willing to skip the addition of a new shrimp if it might be a problem with the loachy, and I'm willing to get 2, though not three, because I wont be able to accomidate 3 large loaches, should by change the three of them all grow to a good size. If I ever made an upgrade in size over 30 gallons, it wouldn't be for a few years... or a lot of years.

I mean, either way, I'm not getting schooling fish for a good while, probably at least a month... So I have plenty of time to decide. I think for now, I'm just going to worry about my better, my shrimpy, and my loaches.

Sorry if I'm sounding overly picky and unwilling to change. But, I really have my heart set on the loaches, and also I really need to stick to 1 tank. Thanks for helping out, I shall read the cycling information when I'm done cleaning.

 

[KeddyPie]

If I don't find a problem with them, I think I'm going to get 4 or 5 harlequin rasboras instead of tetra's. I was just reminded of my love for them