Columnaris? Tb?

[Winterlily]

Please note that many photos illustrate the progression and are within the text to show what I'm writing about...

This fish affected just died yesterday. But I need to get a consensus as to what you all think it might have been - most of all because I'm freaking out it was TB, which I understand *I* can get in a skin infection form. And, importantly, if any of my other guys get it, I'd really like to know how to treat it.

Okay - the history, with photos to illustrate throughout. This is a male halfmoon betta. He lived in a 5.5 gallon tank alone (was with 2 nerite snails), filtered and heated, live plants, and regular maintenance - fully cycled tank with 0-0-5 chemistry. In August, he got what looked like 3 scrapes - one worse than the others - which I assumed was from the one remaining fake plant that had a sharp edge (promptly removed). It looked like this:

I watched it closely - it didn't become infected or fuzzy or anything sinister so I did nothing aside from some Stress Coat which I don't normally add. The scales, however, never grew back. It just sort of never changed. He was fine, acting normally etc. Then, in October, it started looked worse. Much deeper. Same spots as those 3 original "scrapes" (if they were scrapes), but now lots deeper - like this:

He lost his shiny appearance and looked really dull. As if he was coated in flour (NO white spots of any size, just that cloudiness). I attributed this to excess slime production because of the things on his side. He was still acting COMPLETELY normally and I stupidly did not medicate at the time. I was leery of medicating if there was nothing wrong - I ended up thinking that it was just scar tissue. Wish I'd have listened to the advice to treat back then with antibiotics but I so didn't want to stress him for nothing with meds I wasn't positive he needed. Right about this time, I got an outbreak of BGA and blacked out that tank for 3 days. Just before the black out, he was started to act a bit off - lying on the bottom (on his stomach) resting. Odd for him to lay on the gravel. Eating fine and immediately coming to the glass when he saw me, so again, I thought he'd just found a new place to rest or something.

About a week later, in early November, I see a big thing hanging off the worst of the things on his side. It was not fuzzy exactly - I still believe it was a big glunk of slime/mucus? Guess it could've been tissue. Not great shots, but here are 2 shots:

You can see the scales are pineconing right around the area - no where else though. He got very bad, fast, from there. Starting laying on the bottom all the time (on his stomach), but was still eating. Those pics above were Nov. 2nd. He was starting to get "lesions" or whatever on his OTHER side too, in addition to these getting tons worse. I started Maracyn and Maracyn2. On November 3, he looked like this (right side and left side shown:

He went downhill rapidly from there over the course of the next 2 days. Quit eating, lost almost all color on his body, lay only on his side on the gravel breathing heavy and fast. Lesions on both sides got worse and deeper. I'd decided to give the antibiotics 3 days only and if no improvement, I was going to euthanize. He beat me to it. When I took him out of the water after he died, the lesions were REALLY deep and on both sides. Only on his body - nothing on fins or head.

Does this seems like an injury that got infected, and a big ol' bacterial infection took hold and became widespread? Columnaris either wholly or that started after an injury? Parasitic? Or my worry - TB? What do you think?

(BTW, tank was at about 79 degress, filtered, maintained weekly with gravel vac and 30% WC, live plants, 2 nerite snails, no new additions, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5 nitrate, 7.8 pH.)

 

[WILDER]

it could of been bacterial to parasites.

Bacteria can enter throw cuts and wounds.
Did he look like he was dusted in talc.
Did the fish show any of these signs. Darting, erratic swimming, laboured breathing, gasping, flicking and rubbing.

I would strip the tank down and steralise everything in the tank.
Bless him. R.I.P.

 

[Winterlily]

Hi Wilder -

He didn't look like you could see individual grains of talc - he looked more like if you put talc on your finger then rubbed it on him.

>>Did the fish show any of these signs. Darting, erratic swimming, laboured breathing, gasping, flicking and rubbing.<<

He never flicked or rubbed, darted, or swam erratically. At the very end when he was lying on his side dying, his breathing was definitely harder than normal - you know, gills opening and closing big, like he was breathing hard. Not sure if that's labored breathing? Probably? But only at the very end - like the last day or so.

No need to strip down the tank and sterilize - I'm far too paranoid. I've tossed it all. Do NOT want to chance this moving on to a new inhabitant.

If you think bacterial - do I need to worry about TB do you think? Or look more like columnaris or something else?

 

[WILDER]

if there were no parasite signs I would say bacterial.
I was looking at costia parasite as they seemed to match aswell with some of the symtoms.

To say fish tb you have to have tests done on the fish.
Usually the symtoms of fish tb are a fish will get skinny, sunken in belly, or bent spine.
There quite alot of symtoms to fish tb and the fish dosn't have to show them all.

Get you the costia link just to take a look at.

Velvet can look like the fish has been dusted in talc.


Costia



Symptoms:

Infected fish have soft, film-like skin turbidity. A grayish white film of excess mucous covers the entire body of the fish including the eyes. Severe infestations can lead to skin inflammation and deterioration. Reddening of the skin and bleeding, most often occurs on the underside of the mouth and the pectoral area of the body. Sick fish often rub or scratch against objects in the aquarium in an attempt to relieve irritation. Severely infected fish may become reclusive, listless, lie on the bottom of the aquarium and stop feeding.



Cause:

The parasitic flagellates Costia necatrix and Ichthyobodo necatrix. Costia is a small bean-shaped flagellate which attaches tightly to all areas of the skin, destroying the flesh. This parasite can only survive for approximately one hour without a host and does not tolerate temperatures above 86 - 90 F.



Treatment:

Raising the water temperature to 86 - 90 degrees may be helpful if your fish can tolerate the high temperatures. Quick Cure, Formalin, Malachite Green and Copper Sulfate are the drugs of choice for Costia. Costia infestations are highly contagious. All fish, including the aquarium, should be treated.

 

[WILDER]

Here a link
http/www.fishyfarmacy.com/articles/aeromonas.html

 

[Winterlily]

Hu. That hole-in-the-side disease sounds and looks a bit like it. They talk about it being "mostly" a koi-type disease - have you heard of it in bettas?

And hole-in-the-side disease isn't costia, is it?

 

[WILDER]

No costia a parasite not bacterial.

Yes other types of fish can get hole in the side.
Its bacterial and once once the bacteria starts to eat the flesh away you have to act fast with antibiotics.