Co2 Worth It In This Situation?

[gsta13]

Hey all i have a Rio 260 and the ligtng that came wth the tak its a little over 1WPG, iam planning on putting in planting substrate and gravel over the top, now i am wondering with so little lighting wil i still need the recomended amount of CO2 in my tank orcould i make do with he ones made for 100L tanks as the lighting is so low, i also plan to add ferts to the tank but also in small amounts as the lighting is so low, kind of on a budjet TBH so i thought this would be the best way as i cant really afford to set upa pressurised CO2 system although i have read this would be needed for my tank if it has over 2WPG lighting.

Basiclly my options are:
Get better lighting then CO2 pressurized when i can afford it, but im guessin algae is a problem here.
Get a cheaper CO2 unit for the tank and keep lighting as is.
Save up for a pressurized CO2 unit and leave everything else as is then after thCO2 add new lights.

I dont think i wll be adding ferts from the start as i read somewhere that it would help algae establish itself.

Any hints or tips?
Thanks
Greg

 

[jimbooo]

in short co2 first before adding more lighting. if i were you i'd set up a nutrafin co2 kit (yeast and sugar type). costs £20 rather than £ooo's.

you could add more lighting once this is set up then go pressurised later.

 

[gsta13]

great thanks mate.
The ones designed for 100L should be ok then yeah?
Thanks again
Greg

 

[vic]

I am sorry but I think things are getting turned back wards here. Adding a nutrient, carbon through CO2, without enhancing the very low lighting level is likely to be disastrous. Algae will likely become a problem. Plant growth rate is directly affected by photosynthesis. Photosynthesis is limited by light availability. Less than 1 WPG will not provide enough light for the plants to assimilate the injected CO2. I believe that you should upgrade the lighting first. There is no real need for injected CO2 until you hit something over 2WPG.
Vic

 

[gsta13]

Doesnt algae need light to? i figured that by providing the plants with CO2 it will not stunt the growth of the plants via lack of CO2, adding nutrients will stop the plants being stuntted that way, i figured that algae would be competeing for the light with the planrts,loosing due to the fact that there is enogu h of all other factors in the aquarium for the plants. It is only half of the reccomended CO2 dosege for my tank.

Anyone clear this up for me?
Thanks for the reply Vic and jimboo, i am not saying your wrong vic, just showing the logic of my thinking, if that makes sense
Greg

 

[Underwurlde]

Comparitively speaking:
What algae need more of is LIGHT
What plants need more of is CO2

In other words, lower light, higher (and STABLE) CO2 => Good for plants.
In other words, higher light, lower CO2 => Good for algae.
The addition of CO2 does NOT cause algae, rather incorrect / low / unstable CO2 combined with light drives Algae.

This however does NOT mean that high light = algae either - Think of it as a chain of events:
The PRIMARY element for plant growth is light (photosynthesis).
So you give the plants lots of light.
IN ORDER to grow, the next thing the plant needs is Carbon, i.e. CO2
So you give the plants CO2.
IN ORDER to grow, the next thing the plant needs is Primary, Secondary & Trace Elements.
So you give that to the plants.
The plants grow (and I mean GROW).

Get all that right, the plants grow because of the presence of light, they suck all the good stuff out of the water in doing so. Result? No algae.

Hope I got that right.....

Andy

 

[Squid]

Gsta13...

I agree with andy above...

I think that the results speak for themselves. Look in Jimboo's signature and you will see a diary for a 50G tank. This is done with about 1.26 wpg, and a bit of CO2. It proves that it can be done.

Juwel tanks are notorious for low levels of lighting. They are also notorious for providing their standard tubes which don't lend themselves too well to plant growth. My suggestion would be to go ahead with the DIY CO2 and change the tubes to something that is better for plant growth. There is a pinned thread and plenty of other threads searchable for tubes to go for. I would also add reflectors if you don't already have them, as this will maximise the light that you do have, and is one of the cheapest methods to improve your lighting situation.

I have just added reflectors, changed the tubes and added CO2 to my tank, and now i am sitting back and waiting .. another thing about different light tubes is that the fish look much better too.

Don;t forget a bit of fertilisation though. Dosing ferts seemed to help my slight algae issue. Creating a healthy environment for the plants encourages plant growth and can reduce algae growth. You may also want to look at products like flourish excel (see www. aquaessentials.co.uk). This is another method of giving the plants carbon as well as other useful nutrients...

Top tip: research your plants well.. and buy lights that are happy in low levels, such as hygrophilia polysperma, java moss, java fern etc, etc, you can have a look at jimboos diary for ideas..

Good Luck
Squid

 

[gsta13]

Excellent guys thanks alot for your info!, my lighting situation is going to remain the same for the time being until the cash comes flowing in from..... er from where ever it hopefully will tho

I have ordered a little co2 reactor for a 100 L tank jus as jimbo said and waiting on the plants now!
I think i will buy some reflecters tho as there cheap and easy like ya said.

Greg

 

[jimbooo]

oops, i seem to have started some debate here.

i cant elabourate as i'm at work but co2 wont effect algae at all. the more co2 the happier the plants regardless of light. happy plants compete with algae.

my cube showed a drastic change in plant health once i added the diy co2 kit. probably only had 15ppm co2 in there but the plants definatly appreciated it.

good luck.

jimbooo

 

[Underwurlde]

i cant elabourate as i'm at work but co2 wont effect algae at all.

I'm sure you didn't quite word that right!

 

[Squid]

i cant elabourate as i'm at work but co2 wont effect algae at all.

I'm sure you didn't quite word that right!

i thought that too.. it may have been in response to vic.. i think jimbooo was saying that adding Co2 without additional lighting will not Increase the algae levels..

i could be wrong though..

Squid

 

[Dave Spencer]

Here is my take on things:

If your plants have all the Carbon from CO2 they will require, they will get on with using other nutrients in the water, and provided you have a sufficient number of plants, they will flourish and outstrip the algae.

If your plants are receiving insufficient CO2 then they waste time and energy trying to preserve whatever Carbon they can. This means they are using less nutrients in the water column, growing far more slowly and allowing the algae to flourish in a nutrient rich environment.

 

[Squid]

Here is my take on things:

If your plants have all the Carbon from CO2 they will require, they will get on with using other nutrients in the water, and provided you have a sufficient number of plants, they will flourish and outstrip the algae.

If your plants are receiving insufficient CO2 then they waste time and energy trying to preserve whatever Carbon they can. This means they are using less nutrients in the water column, growing far more slowly and allowing the algae to flourish in a nutrient rich environment.

Nicely put.. Nice journal by the way.. i really should have commented.

Squid

 

[gsta13]

Ok sweet glad thats that, now the nutrients..... add em or dont to the setup. Low light low carbon need ferts or asking for trouble?

Greg

 

[Dave Spencer]

Ok sweet glad thats that, now the nutrients..... add em or dont to the setup. Low light low carbon need ferts or asking for trouble?

Greg

CO2 certainly isn`t a bad thing to add to a low light set up. The plants will still benefit from it, but the light element is still important. The CO2 should help to promote increased growth, but to a lesser degree without the higher light levels. The ferts question can be a bit tricky because I would imagine dosing too much of these would leave you open to algae, as your plants will not be growing particularly fast. Maybe by adding root tabs you are introducing fertilisers straight to the root system as opposed to the water column, where the algae will be getting its nutrients.

The fertiliser situation is quite interesting and hopefully someone with more experience could clear this one up for the pair of us.