Co2 Kit Recommendations

[daizeUK]

I'm looking into a CO2 kit for a 120L (32G) tank.  Solenoid is a must.  Can anybody recommend which kits would be best for this size tank?
 
The JBL M602 kit looks like it might be a good choice to me.  How long can I expect the 500g canister to last for 120L, roughly?
 
Planting will be mainly slow growing, easy plants so I'm not totally convinced I really need CO2.  I'll make a decision once I figure out how much it will cost!

 

[Fluval-1200]

Go for a fire extinguisher co2 kit, costs around £150 to start up with decent stuff and a 2kg can. On a tank like that it will last for years.

 

[levahe]

You have already stated you don't want one, but a fire extinguisher set up would be the most cost effective solution for a 120l.
If you don't Mind the extra expense then the jbl 500g bottle OK. I can't see a 500g lasting more than a month and I think that they cost around 18£ per refill.
The ladder type diffuser that comes with it isn't as efficient as ceramic diffusers, and atomisers so you will use more gas there.
In fact the regulator (m001) that comes with that kit fits on fire extinguishers, so I recon if you did buy the m602 kit you would eventually change everything it came with except for the regulator.

The pre built kits are good but you can't buy one tailored to your specific tank. If you have an external Filter you would be way better off with an UP inline atomiser or an external reactor, they are very efficient and your 500g would last longer.

You can rent 'proper' CO2 gas cylinders instead of using fire extinguishers, have a look at BOC or do a google search for co2 hobby gas in your area.

 

[daizeUK]

Thanks for the replies!
 
You read my mind regarding the inline atomiser, that's exactly what I was intending to do!
 
My husband is very much against having pressurized canisters in the house due to safety concerns.  He flatly refuses to let me use a fire extinguisher for anything other than its intended purpose (quite honestly they scare me too)!  He would be willing to consider a purpose-made aquarium kit since he believes they would be safer but any DIY solution seems to be out of the question.  I'm not sure I understand why an 'aquarium' CO2 canister would really be any safer than a welding canister?
 
£18 per month is beyond what I'm willing to spend so that rules out JBL.  I also looked into diy yeast solutions but I get the impression it would be pointless for a tank of this size.  I guess that leaves me with good ol' EasyCarbo!

 

[KirkyArcher]

 I also looked into diy yeast solutions but I get the impression it would be pointless for a tank of this size.  I guess that leaves me with good ol' EasyCarbo!

 
Daize you can effectively use yeast system no problem with a 120l aquarium, I used to run a DIY Co2 generator in my 125 Roma, Mine in the end was only a 1 Lt bottle that uses a 500 ml bottle as a bubble counter/scrubber, using a JBL taifun the large one for tanks up to 400 litres the 1 Lt bottle contains the ingredients that will produce the Co2. My mix is 8 oz of sugar, a half Table spoon of Bicarbonate of soda, and an eighth of a spoonful of yeast and then fill the bottle up 3/4 full with warm water (30°C) and shake the mixture vigorously to begin the reaction, I managed to obtain and maintain the recommended 20mg/l  for over 4 weeks with that mix (and yes I let it run 24/7 with no fish loss or health issues but with the advantage strong healthy plants that contributed to a healthier tank for my fish ) On my current F/E system I have the ceramic diffuser again a JBL item directly beneath the intake strainer and this allows me to run with almost half the BPM to get the same amount of dissolved Co2 from when I had the diffuser just venting through the water column up to the filter outflow.

 

[levahe]

Check out (show the hubby!) This link, can't get any more made for purpose http/www.adamsgas.co.uk/index.php/co2-gas/co2-for-hydroponics-and-plant-growth

Adams gas offer a range of RENT FREE Food Grade Carbon Dioxide gas cylinders, perfect for Hydroponics, Plant and Aquatic Plant growth .

Get one of those cylinders, (I recommend the 3.15kg or the 1.5kg) slap a regulator on it and you're good to go.
Its £12 a rwefill for the 1.5kg and £14 for the 3.15kg

 

[daizeUK]

Thanks for the ideas guys, I'll give both of them serious consideration!  I appreciate the advice.
 
There are no Adams stockists in my area so it would depend on their delivery charges, if the hubby agrees!
I also did some searching and possibly found a welding gas supplier 5 minutes drive down the road from me.
 
Kirky your results sound encouraging - did you use ordinary supermarket yeast?
I thought the recommended level was 30ppm, how did you measure 20ppm?

 

[KirkyArcher]

I was using that Allinson dried active yeast, results were indicated via the JBL permanent Co2 test
which has a tick on the 20mg/l indicator I don't know what level that equates to in ppm
If for what ever reason you needed more gas just add another litre bottle, it's quite an adaptable system
 

 

[daizeUK]

I'm going to give the Yeast solution a try, Kirky you seem to be the only one who is giving me encouragement me to do it, everyone else I speak to is telling me what a bad idea it is!  I will give it a shot and hope I can stumble on the magic formula that worked for you.
 
I'm going to shoot for a target of 15-20ppm which I hope should be sufficient for my lighting levels and planting choices.  I'll use two 1L bottles with a scrubber and I'll aim to have each bottle last at least 2 weeks.
 
So far I've ordered 1 ceramic diffuser + spare plate, plenty of CO2 tubing, drop checker + indicator, a Y splitter to connect the two bottles to the scrubber and 3 non-return valves.
If it all goes horribly wrong then at least I'll have all the tubing and bits I need to connect to a pressurized system later!
 
Kirky did you use an air pump at night?  Did you use an eighth of a 'teaspoon' yeast in your recipe?

 

[DrRob]

Amount of yeast matters relatively little, it's a living thing and will multiply quite quickly. Too little may mean it takes a while to get going but 1 grain would do it eventually. What you do want is enough to make sure that no other microorganisms get a look in. Once it's going you can seed new batches with a dollop from the previous batch. Means the only running cost is sugar and water.

 

[KirkyArcher]

No air pump (not at night anyway, too noisy for bedroom tank location) Plenty of surface agitation via my spraybar. Yes used an eighth of a 'teaspoon' yeast in my recipe. (measuring spoons from Asda) http/direct.asda.com/ASDA-Measuring-Spoons/001427315,default,pd.html 
Low yeast + high sugar content = long term Co2 production but at the cost of lower amounts of generated gas, even when I wanted more Co2 (which you may well require to push gas through an atomiser type diffuser) I never used more than quarter teaspoon of yeast per litre of "mix" only other major advice to give is to ensure everything is sealed as best you can again relating to the higher build up of pressure required to get gas through ceramic diffusers 

 

[daizeUK]

Once it's going you can seed new batches with a dollop from the previous batch. Means the only running cost is sugar and water.

 
Thanks Rob.  I'm sure I'd seen that advice before somewhere but everyone else seems to use fresh yeast each time so I forgot about it.  Perhaps because of concerns that the alcohol will damage the yeast so fresh yeast would probably kick in faster?  I guess it's also easier to measure the exact amount for consistency.
 

Plenty of surface agitation via my spraybar.
 
Low yeast + high sugar content = long term Co2 production but at the cost of lower amounts of generated gas, even when I wanted more Co2 (which you may well require to push gas through an atomiser type diffuser) I never used more than quarter teaspoon of yeast per litre of "mix" only other major advice to give is to ensure everything is sealed as best you can again relating to the higher build up of pressure required to get gas through ceramic diffusers 

I am really surprised that you got 20ppm with the surface agitation, everyone seems to say that surface agitation is a really bad thing when you want to get CO2 levels up.  I'd rather do that than muck about with an air pump if it's possible.  I'll have to experiment!
 
I only found out that the ceramic diffusers require a minimum pressure after I bought one   I deliberately avoided the in-line atomisers for that same reason.  If I can't get the pressure then I might just feed the CO2 line straight up the intake but I don't really want to destroy my impeller.
 
What method did you use for sealing?  I've heard everything from pulling the tube through a small hole with tweezers to using bulkheads...

 

[levahe]

This might be useful http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Complete-DIY-CO2-system-Kit-diffuser-planted-aquarium-/260794496171?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item3cb89034ab

 

[KirkyArcher]

I am really surprised that you got 20ppm with the surface agitation, everyone seems to say that surface agitation is a really bad thing when you want to get CO2 levels up.  I'd rather do that than muck about with an air pump if it's possible.  I'll have to experiment!
 
I only found out that the ceramic diffusers require a minimum pressure after I bought one

  I deliberately avoided the in-line atomisers for that same reason.  If I can't get the pressure then I might just feed the CO2 line straight up the intake but I don't really want to destroy my impeller.
 
What method did you use for sealing?  I've heard everything from pulling the tube through a small hole with tweezers to using bulkheads...
 

 
Yes I was surprised too from what I read on here. During the day I had spray bar agitation along with an air-stone bubbling during the lights on period, I even went to the trouble of seeing how much faster it would take to reach peak level without the air-stone running and low and behold It took nigh on exactly the same time ( Co2 permanent testers not being the fastest items in the world to react and change values) but I'd say from this that "gassing off" is somewhat over rated. Tight fitting pipes through lids are good some what harder to achieve with Co2 rated tubbing rather than often seen and used silicone tubing, but also a good additional silicon seal will not go amiss (roughen surface to be embedded/coated with sealant for improved grip) and any old sealant will do for anything that's not going to be exposed/emmersed  to tank water

 

[KirkyArcher]

I only found out that the ceramic diffusers require a minimum pressure after I bought one 

  I deliberately avoided the in-line atomisers for that same reason.  If I can't get the pressure then I might just feed the CO2 line straight up the intake but I don't really want to destroy my impeller.

 
Until my in-line diffuser arrives from Tankscape, I have my JBL Co2 ceramic diffuser directly beneath the intake of my 306 filter and suffer no more than the odd and small (once every day during gas on time) burst of trapped bubbles out of the spray-bar,  You could do the same with the use of an air stone should you not achieve required pressure, but must warn that when I did this the marina airstone broke down and began crumbling after 3 months I assume due to the acidic properties of the gas.