Clown Loach - Paralysis

[h34ds]

Hello,

Over the last 3 days i have noticed that my some of my shoal of clown loach have shown signs of what i would descrtibe as paralysis of the back half of the fish. They swim around with the pecs and have what appears to be a slightly arched back. There is some inbalance to the fish and they struggle to stay upright. They also now and again seem to fit or shudder for a few seconds where they seem to go fully rigid and then swim off again. The paralysis is not always there and for a while they can swim fine and feed. However, this moning 3 of them have died.
The illness seems to be specific to the clown laoch - and it has taken the 3 middle sized laoch of around 3 -4 inches
this morning the 2 smaller clown loach have displayed the same issues.
My LFS has not really been much help - the water conditions are fine - i have a little salt in the tank too

Is this likely to be a parasitic internal infection or a swim bladder issue or both

Has anyone experienced this with their fish or can anyone reccommend any treatment to try and save the rest of my laoch = 2 of which are getting on for 7 inches and are stunning.

thanks in advance

 

[h34ds]

To add

The tank is a trigon 190 - fully established for 4 years - although had a huge fish kill last april that was eventually sorted by my LFS in June 09 - only one fish survived. No problems since then. I have bog wood in the tank - with gravel and a compact H filter that coems with the jewel tank

 

[WILDER]

How many fish and which type.
Water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.

The tanks to small for clown loaches as they get bigger.
You need at least a 90 gallon.

Do any of the clown loaches look skinny.
What does it look like when they go the toilet.
Is there anuse enlarged or red and inflamed.

Bent spine can be old age, vitamin deficiency, internal parasites, fish tb.

 

[h34ds]

How many fish and which type.
Water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.

The tanks to small for clown loaches as they get bigger.
You need at least a 90 gallon.

Do any of the clown loaches look skinny.
What does it look like when they go the toilet.
Is there anuse enlarged or red and inflamed.

Bent spine can be old age, vitamin deficiency, internal parasites, fish tb.

I have - 1 large common plec around a foot long
4 bristle nose plecs
1 L number plec
1 Dennison barb
2 black widow tetra
1 Shark
1 Golden Panchax
and 6 clown loach

The clown loach all appear to be fit and healthy - foeces no different to any other clown loach ive had
there are no swellings markings or inflammation to any part of the fish

The spine doesnt appear to be 'bent' as such but appears as if the rest of the body is sagging from the head

All water parameters are as i have always run them - my ph is around the 6.7 mark and 0 ammonia, nitrites and nitrates
the water is a little tanned from the bog wood and i regularly change the water and a little salt is added to the tank

There does not appear to be a visible sign of illness - i.e inflammation rapid gills flukes etc

If it is an internal parasite - what treatment would you reccommend to use?

Thanks

 

[WILDER]

Your tanks severely overstocked.
What test kit are you using.
What do you feed the fish.
Is the poo a healthy brown colour.


Is it possible to load a pic of the sick fish onto the site.


It's rare to have a nitrate reading of 0, unless you have a tap nitrate reading of 0, have live plants.

What type of shark?

I wouldn't use the salt with plecs, and clown loaches.

 

[h34ds]

Your tanks severely overstocked.
What test kit are you using.
What do you feed the fish.
Is the poo a healthy brown colour.


Is it possible to load a pic of the sick fish onto the site.


It's rare to have a nitrate reading of 0, unless you have a tap nitrate reading of 0, have live plants.

What type of shark?

I wouldn't use the salt with plecs, and clown loaches.

The poo is a medium brown colour - i feed some blood worm and a few peas + flake
I use tetra 6 in 1 test kit
Sorry nitrate reading is showing a low value around 1 - very pale pink on the test strip. (Tap water does give a low reading too)

I was told the salt was good for the plecs i put in 1 teaspoon for the whole tank every other time i do a change in water.

Am i actually doing more harm with salt than good by adding salt to plecs? thanks

 

[WILDER]

I was lead to believe some plecs don't tolerate salt to well.
Not familar with your type of plec.
Also when adding salt you have to consider other fish in the tank, if they can tolerate salt.

Strip card test kits are not accurate. In my opinion there a complete waste of money.
I would invest in some liquid test kits instead.

Take a sample of your water to the lfs and ask them to write the readings down for you.

I doubt the filter keeping up with the load of fish in the tank.

How often do you maintain the tank.

Best also to research the fish diet needs.

Immediate water change till you no your water stats.

If the fish are not showing any internal parasite signs. The arched back could be injury, vitamin deficiency, fish tb.

Any clown loaches with sunken in bellys.

Also stunted growth can cause bent spine.

 

[h34ds]

I was lead to believe some plecs don't tolerate salt to well.
Not familar with your type of plec.
Also when adding salt you have to consider other fish in the tank, if they can tolerate salt.

Strip card test kits are not accurate. In my opinion there a complete waste of money.
I would invest in some liquid test kits instead.

Take a sample of your water to the lfs and ask them to write the readings down for you.

I doubt the filter keeping up with the load of fish in the tank.

How often do you maintain the tank.

Best also to research the fish diet needs.

Immediate water change till you no your water stats.

If the fish are not showing any internal parasite signs. The arched back could be injury, vitamin deficiency, fish tb.

The LFS tested my water at the back end of last month - jan 20th i get one done quarterly and they seem to confirm the tests i do, however, they usually show a slightly higher level but not significantly

I vacuum the gravel once a week thoroughly and do a water change that usually ends up being 35 - 45%

I have never had any problems with water issues - stock levels or fish ailment and my levels are always pretty consistent

If the issue was water quality it wouldn;t be solely clown loach portraying issues that seem slighly odd.

I am aware of my fishes needs - diet wise etc and have good growth rates - colour and behaviour and life expectancy

I was told salt was not an issue but i will refrain from this and check with other LFS

Thanks

 

[WILDER]

Your tanks severely overstocked.
The tanks is just over 40 gallons isn't it.

A foot long plec in a 40 gallon aswell.

I would buy your own liquid test kits as not all lfs are to be trusted.
Ammonia and nitrite should be 0.

I doubt the filter coping with a 1ft plec. Also plecs are massive waste producers.

 

[h34ds]

Your tanks severely overstocked.
The tanks is just over 40 gallons isn't it.

A foot long plec in a 40 gallon aswell.

I would buy your own liquid test kits as not all lfs are to be trusted.
Ammonia and nitrite should be 0.

I doubt the filter coping with a 1ft plec. Also plecs are massive waste producers.

Yeah its a 190 litres so yes around 40 gallons - i had the plec at 5 inches he has grown to a ft in the last few years and seems to be about the same for the last 6 months - yes the tank does get dirty and so i vacuum it regularly - I will take your advice and get liquid tests for all parameters

I also will go to my LFS and get soem advice on my stocking level - and will let him take some off my hands if he deems it necessary

However, im sure the loach aren't suffering from over crowding but from an illness

can anyone shed any light on this issue

 

[WILDER]

The common pleco does tolerate abit of salt but not alot.
http/www.fishpondinfo.com/fish/plecocare.htm


You need to get a bigger tank for the fish if you want to keep them.

You need at least a 100 gallon for the fish you are keeping.

 

[WILDER]

The bent spine could be any of these.
Stunted growth, injury, internal parasites, fish tb, vitamin deficiency, old age.

But your tank is severely overcrowded.
If the clown loaches are 4 years old they need to be in a 90 to 100 gallon tank by now.
The plec should be in a large tank too.
A 40 gallon hardly fitting for a 1ft plec.

 

[h34ds]

The bent spine could be any of these.
Stunted growth, injury, internal parasites, fish tb, vitamin deficiency, old age.

But your tank is severely overcrowded.
If the clown loaches are 4 years old they need to be in a 90 to 100 gallon tank by now.
The plec should be in a large tank too.
A 40 gallon hardly fitting for a 1ft plec.

Ok i am accepting what you are saying and these will be addressed but i am wanting to treat my clown loach at the moment to save them.
The tank is a a quater circle and not a skinny 40 gallon tank - As said i will take your advice and will get the fish moved into a larger environemnt

 

[WILDER]

Dosn't sound like internal parasites if the poo normal.
Hard to say fish tb without test done on a fish.

That leaves injury, but I doubt it if more than one fish is affected with a bent spine.
Old age. Not sure how long clown loaches live, but it dosn't sound like old age.

That leaves vitamin deficiency and stunted growth.

 

[dave_oddballs]

clown loach's can live well past 10 years so it won't be old age, as mentioned you should take some fish back to the lfs, firstly the plec, also what l number have you got and what size is it?
do you know rough size's of the clown loach's that are affected. i have seen clown loach's in some pretty small, poor tanks before with no visible signs of illness or deformities, so although your tank is too small it may not be the answer to the problem, your filtration could play a big part in the health of your fish if it isn't coping, although you should do weekly water changes of around 25-30% (although 50% would be more suitable in your situation) your water should never get visibly dirty in that space of time, any spinal deformity can cause the fish to 'fit' as spinal damage would cause in most animals.
a photograph f at least one of the affected fish would be better, and you can start to amend things by re-homing some of your fish, biggest first.
i know how hard it is parting with fish, especially ones like clown loach's, but i it is for the health of the fish.
i don't think many amazonian fish deal with salt too well, but not sure on how it would affect them.