Clown Loach Ill

[JesusOnEez]

EDIT: Water Test Results

I've just done a water test and;

pH : 6.0 - 6.5
Nitrate : 5 mg/l
Nitrite : 0 mg/l
Ammonia : 0 mg/l

This looks fine to me.

The clown is constantly going to the surface or the water intake (is he here because the suction is helping water go through his gills quicker?), so I believe it's a breathing problem...his gills don't look red or inflamed, and no o ther fish is having breathing difficulties...we also have plenty of live plants and an air block (30cm long) pumping out bubbles to disturb the surface. The Clown's mouth is permanently open ("O" shaped).

/EDIT

I have a 125l tank with live plants. It houses 5 cory cats, 1 flying fox, 1 ancistrus goldspot, 6 black phantom tetras, 1 swordtail and 1 white cloud minnow (gained this by accident, I know they're a schooling fish).

A while ago, I had an infestation of malaysian horn snails, and bought two young clown loaches to deal with the problem. I did a water change (EDIT: 50%) about a week after they were introduced, and they both became extremely stressed, I'm guessing due to temperature drop (my other fish don't care, in fact my cory's love it and think it's mating season). One actually died, very quickly, the other (slightly bigger one) survived and recovered with no apparent problems.

Since then I've been wary of doing a water change for fear of killing him. Over the last couple of days, he's been refusing to eat, has noticeably lost weight and his gills are moving very very fast. Colour is fine and I can't see any sign of infection or funghi anywhere..he looks great apart from the weight loss and is obviously weak...I had to physically poke him away from the pump intake vent as he couldn't swim away from it.

I'm really at a loss as to what to do, all my other fish are perfect.

The tank is at a constant 24C, which is a good compromise for the fish I've got (apart from the white cloud which likes lower temperatures around 19C ideally, but she seems fine).

Could it be a simple case of loneliness and craving his own kind? I've certainly noticed these fish seem very intelligent compared to others...almost like dogs. It's hilarious the way they carry snails around in their mouths like a dog carrying a stick.

Any help much appreciated, as, apart from the fact I love these fish, my snail issue is coming back fast.

Just had to forcibly remove him from the pump intake vent again...note that I haven't got another tank (hospital tank) to keep him in.

 

[JesusOnEez]

OK...update.

I've spoken to my LFS who I've always found extremely good. They reckon after my water change, the clown loach that died probably died of a heart attack. Apparently they are susceptible to heart attacks and shock...

...this got me thinking that a couple of days ago, we noticed the surviving clown was missing, and eventually found him under a load of rock (we have a rock arrangement in a corner that has a tendancy to collpase when the ancistrus goldspot is landscaping). We free him, but guessed he must have been trapped for around 12 hours overnight.

It's since then that he's behaving this way, so shock seems to be the only possible reason for his behaviour, given the good water conditions and health of all the other fish. The recommendation was to "calm" the tank...leave it alone for a week with the lights on for minimal times, but also, to get him some tank mates as he has seemed down since his one tankmate died.

So I'm off now to get a couple more, introduce them and hope the new arrivals help to bring him out of shock.

 

[JesusOnEez]

(bump)

 

[WILDER]

An open mouth can mean there maybe something stuck is his mouth, has he lost weight through not eating, as clown laoches are suspectable to wasting away desease.

Large water changes are bad for clowns.


http/www.bollmoraakvarieklubb.org/artikl...own%20loach.htm

 

[Nina]

I've had a quick look on google re water changing with clowns. Most of the places I have found recommend that 25% should be done on a weeky basis. There are a few examples Here & here &here

I could go on but you get the idea....

 

[JesusOnEez]

An open mouth can mean there maybe something stuck is his mouth, has he lost weight through not eating, as clown laoches are suspectable to wasting away desease.

Large water changes are bad for clowns.

Thanks for posting the article, it was very interesting.

I learned very quickly after one died that large water changes are bad news...I used to do 1 third every couple of weeks but have changed to a quarter once a week, and this seems to have helped.

Update on the sick one. I got two more to keep him company and they're doing well, investigating this and investigating that. One in particular spent a lot of time with the sick loach, nudging him into moving when he was on the water intake which was kind of heartwarming.

As it is, the ill clown seems better. His colours are a little pale, he's eating small amounts and swimming around a little. He's not spending any time at the top of the tank, although his gills are still moving pretty rapidly.

I had thought that he might have something stuck in his mouth...luckily, as he hasn't been moving around much, there have been times when he's pointing right at me and I got a good look. Can't see anything, so if something is stuck, it's stuck a long way down. He doesn't look to be losing any more weight. If I had to describe his demeanor in any way, I'd say "lethargic", whereas before it was "nearly dead".

I'm hoping he's on the way to the recovery and certainly seems a little better.

Oooh, and the article stating they don't eat Malaysian Sand Snails? The empty shells I fish out of the water disagree with this, my original two ate loads of them.

Finally, my two new clowns have learnt very quickly not to creep up on the relaxing ancistrus goldspot and peck him on the head!

 

[WILDER]

Good luck, hope he gets well.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I have 7 clowns, the largest is close to 7 inches and the smallest about 3.5. I have had the tweo largest for almost 5 years. I had a 3rd but it actually did die a sudden death likely stroke or heart attack. I typically do 35-40% weekly water changes and sometimes more and have for many years. My clowns love the changes and never show an ill effects.

I do know that most store bought clowns have a better than 50/50 shot at being sick on p urchase and should always be quarenteened at least a month before introducing them to a new home. They also love to wedge into tight spaces. my best is yours was not trapped but was just inside napping. Discus are also very social fish and the more you can have the better- but 3 is the bare minimum needed to get them to behave close to normally. Lone discus get very nutty and often are reclusive.

I also think your pH is a tad low for them- 6.5 is about the minimum that is good for them. They do best in tank temps of 75-86 F (24-30 C). They are a scaleless fish and need clean water to thrive.

If it is any help, I keep my clowns at pH 7.4, gh 6dg (106ppm) and at about 83 degrees.

You may want to read here for more info Loaches.com

 

[JesusOnEez]

I have 7 clowns, the largest is close to 7 inches and the smallest about 3.5. I have had the tweo largest for almost 5 years. I had a 3rd but it actually did die a sudden death likely stroke or heart attack. I typically do 35-40% weekly water changes and sometimes more and have for many years. My clowns love the changes and never show an ill effects.

I did about a third and of my original Clowns, one died within about 10 minutes, the other (the current sick one) took three hours to recover, with none of the other fish showing ill effects. I now do 25% water changes with slightly warmer water, more often than I did the 33% change. This seems to have illeminated the "shock" factor. Honestly though, most of what I've read states that large water changes can stress loaches, so maybe yours are double 'ard!

I do know that most store bought clowns have a better than 50/50 shot at being sick on p urchase and should always be quarenteened at least a month before introducing them to a new home. They also love to wedge into tight spaces. my best is yours was not trapped but was just inside napping. Discus are also very social fish and the more you can have the better- but 3 is the bare minimum needed to get them to behave close to normally. Lone discus get very nutty and often are reclusive.

Unfortunately, the situation I'm in at the moment doesn't allow me to have a quarantine tank. The best I can do at the moment when getting new fish is to float the bag as normal to equalise the temperature, introduce some tank water to the bag, then pop an airstone in and check they're OK 12 hours later. If they are, they get introduced to the tank. I know it's not the best way of doing it, but until I can get a quarantine tank, it'll have to do...I've been lucky doing it this way for quite some time.

You may be right that he was just napping, but I panicked as I hadn't seen him for quite some time.

Errr...I haven't got any Discus!

I also think your pH is a tad low for them- 6.5 is about the minimum that is good for them. They do best in tank temps of 75-86 F (24-30 C). They are a scaleless fish and need clean water to thrive.

If it is any help, I keep my clowns at pH 7.4, gh 6dg (106ppm) and at about 83 degrees.

What with this being a community tank, I have to go with a compromise pH level. With what I've got in the tank, this pH is fine, although I admit it remains to be seen whether the Clowns will show any ill effects long term. If so, then I'll pawn them off on a friend of mine who has a higher pH tank, and not get Clowns again until I can get another tank going specifically for higher pH fish. My temperature is again a compromise for the fish I've got and is steady at 24 C, which is the low end of what they like.

Thanks for the link by the way!

As it is, he's much better today. Still breathing a little quick for my liking, buta huge improvement on feeding today. He's scoffing snails left, right and centre, swimming around with his new Clown buddies quite actively and colour is better than it has been for a while.

Looking good!