Cloning Tank

[Siamese Fighter05]

Ok firstly id like to apoligize for starting another topic, But the old one was getting clogged up with all my questions. I have asked this in the other topic but the two pages of questions and answers may put people off so i thought it would be easier for everyone to start a new topic. And plus im excited and it is getting worse because everytime i go up my mates not in or we leave it to late. So hopefully im picking the tank up tomorrow. Ive read most topics on Cloning but i just wanted to double check. Ok ill just go through what i plan to do and you can put me right if im doing something wrong. Ok firstly tommorow hopefully i get the tank, Ill bring it home clean it and check for leaks. Whack it on the stand (furniture table). Im going to get the laterite and put it in(Clean it first). Fill the tank up with water, when that is done i plan putting the corner fiter in my current tank in the the new tank And then put the trio 200 in with a sponge that i will cut from the current tank. That would give me my tank with two filters with mature bacteria and between them pump 2450 litres of water per hour. Then id put the two heaters in (100w each). Then all the fake plants and ornament in the current tank into the new one. Ok its question time.

1. Should i use a few gallons of water from my current tank and then fill the rest (80%) with clean dechlorinated water?
2. Should i boil the water to remove temporary hardness?
3. If i do boil the water, Will it be ok to put the filters in straight away or will the heat kill the bacteria?
4. Should i give the tank 24 hours to clear, warm up or cool down (depending if i add boiling water) Or can i put the fish in as soon as the temp is ok?
5. How long can the bacteria go without food? fishie poo and stuff
Id let the tank run a few weeks before adding plants and removing fakes and ornaments. Plus this gives me time to upgrade the light, buy fertilisers, plants and a co2 unit. Then wait a few more weeks before adding new fish. Tank is 4ft and is probably 37g like a standard 4footer? 120cmx38cmx45cm?
Lol sorry for he long thread and all the questions but i like to keep y'all on your toes
Thanks Dan
Ill post some pics as soon as the fish are in but dont expect live plants or cocunut caves for a few weeks
I thought id just let you all know my plans for the 17g. Im considering 3 options...
1. Breeding cories
2. Divide the tank in four, to get for compartments of 15cmx31cmx30cm (lxdxh) And getting some bettas
3. Giving the tank to sylvia if shes still interested?

 

[rdd1952]

1. Should i use a few gallons of water from my current tank and then fill the rest (80%) with clean dechlorinated water?

[snapback]890799[/snapback]​

No, adding water from the existing tank won't do any good. There are no beneficial bacteria in the water column.

2. Should i boil the water to remove temporary hardness?

[snapback]890799[/snapback]​

Not unless you have a lot of impurities in your tap water. Actually, the KH is a good thing in that it keeps your pH stable.

3. If i do boil the water, Will it be ok to put the filters in straight away or will the heat kill the bacteria?

[snapback]890799[/snapback]​

If you do boil it, let it cool to room temp before adding it to the tank. Hot water could crack the glass or warp the acrylic.

4. Should i give the tank 24 hours to clear, warm up or cool down (depending if i add boiling water) Or can i put the fish in as soon as the temp is ok?

[snapback]890799[/snapback]​

Don't add the fish until the tank has cycled completely.

5. How long can the bacteria go without food? fishie poo and stuff

[snapback]890799[/snapback]​

It really depends. Even after the tank has cycled, add ammonia up til the day before you add fish.

 

[sylvia]

I'm not entirely sure I understand how you plan to clone it... Are you going to use filter media from the old filter in the new one or what? I personaly would suggest running the new filter on the old tank (alongside the old filter) for a week. Then just move the new filter into the new tank and add some fish.

1) No. Dirty old tank water does not contain any useful bacteria. All you'll be adding is nitrAtes and whatever traces of ammonia/nitrIte there are.
2) No. Do you normaly boil your water for a water change (just do whatever you would do for a normal water change)? Fluctuations in pH/hardness are one of the worst things for your fish. Just use water from the tap and let the heater warm it up to the right temp afterwards.
3) Seeing as you won't boil it this is irrelevant but putting the bacteria into hot water certainly would kill them.
4) Just put a FEW fish in (say 2-3 so as not to cause an ammonia spike) as soon as your heater has brought the tank's temp. to the right level. You'll want to add fish gradualy (2-4 a week) as having cloned the tank doesn't mean you can fully stock immediately. Make sure you monitor water params in the beginning when it's still rather unstable.
5) Not very long and it's generaly agreed that after about 4 hours they begin dying off.

Anyway, congrats on the new tank and good luck with everything

 

[Siamese Fighter05]

Thanks for the replies. I wont add boling water so that covers questions 1,2,3 and i understand 5. Im still puzzled about 4. If i add two filters that have already been in my current tank for months, doesnt that mean i have two mature filters that can house all the fish in my current tank just in another slightly bigger tank plus a new tank? Like i said im putting all ornaments and fakes in for a while, until i go live. So ive got everything in my current tank thats just moving into a new tank. Two mature filters, all ornament and fakes, gravel on top of new substrate, same heater plus a new one. I suppose it just like doing a 100% water change? I thought it would be instantly cycled because it has everything it needs including a constant steady supply of ammonia via the fish? If not i can add the fish like sylvia says but i justhought id be able to move everything like 'clonging' suggest....

 

[Siamese Fighter05]

Ok..Finally picked up the tank .....But its smaller than i expected But what the hell it bigger than the current tank and its free ....But then again im diffently going to need a new hood because this one is damn right ugly. And it has no light Lol lots of ups and downs but i thought id keep you updated. Ok went to my mates house and picked up the tank, which was diffently in need of a bit of elbow grease. Its also only 3ft instead of the 4 i was told but its still 1f longer than the current tank so im not complaining. the measuremnts are lxwxh 90cmx30x38 so ive been given 30cm more and a few more gallons for my fish.
Brought the tank home and gave it a good scrub with a sponge (new one just incase your wondering). Got it sparkling again and then just filled her half up to check for leaks. It was all good so i was choosing where it could go in my bedroom or the lounge. I decided to put it in the lounge this way i would have more room and the lounge actually had something interesting to watch unlike the crap on tv. My mate gave me a Bag full of playsand which im going to use for a weeks until i can save up for everything for plant growing. I spent my last money out with mates which i was planning to use for laterite but oh well. Gave the sand a good wash, took me about 30mins to to cover the bottom of the tank 4cm's deep all over. Then i just Started filling her up as usual with a plate to stop moving the sand around. filled her up and added the heater and trio 2000 and then the water treatment. I added a few fake plants that were given to me with the tank (theyre as ugly as hell but i just want some extra cover for the fish when they move in until i can go well planted.) Hopefulyl overnight the tank temp will come up to 26C. The water is already crystal clear so i just wanted to run the filter with some sponges and hual hoops to get the water full of oxygen and just pick up any bits of detriment or dirt that i missed, which i doubt i did the amount of times i washed the sound even after it was clear. Ok now back to question 4. Which im still confused with... Orignally i was planning on putting everything in my other tank in this one. ie. fake plants, ornaments filters which are months old and are doing an excellents job in the current tank. the gravel on top of the current substate in stockings. Then adding the fish. But from the other posts im unsure if i can. One person ( im sorry i cant gb and get the name because ive typed all this) Said i cant add anyfish until i cycle the tank, but isnt that whats cloning tanks is all about? just adding 'ready made' filters that are full of mature beneficial bacteria and then letting the gravel rest on top of new substrate to move homes.obviously when the tank temp is the same as the current one, the water is from the same tap, so id imagine its the same ph and hardness already. i was planning on moving the fish in asap. But now im unsure and would really appreciate some help. Can i add the fish as soon as ive added everything else?
Thanks Dan

 

[Joviella]

If you are moving your current filter over to the new tank,you need to add fish to keep the bacteria"live".HTH.

 

[Siamese Fighter05]

Yep this is whats puzzling me. I thought that just moving everything to the new tank would just be fine because everything would be pretty much identical just 5 gallons more water, no extra mess. I wont add anymore fish for a few weeks and even when i do the extra 5 gallons are only really going to allow me to have 2, 3 at most more cories.

 

[SarahBravo]

If you're using the existing filters and moving over the same amount of fish you *should* be able to move them all over in one go. However, I would recommend keeping a daily eye on the ammonia and doing more frequent water changes for a while till it's settled down.

I have successfully cloned tanks by 'stealing' filter material from existing filters several times and it has always worked okay, but it doesn't hurt to keep a watchful eye out.

Good luck!

 

[Joviella]

I have done this many,many times and it works for me.Just be prepared for extra water changes etc, if you are unlucky enough to have a "mini" cycle. Good Luck and keep us updated.

 

[Siamese Fighter05]

Ok thanks for your posts, Im diffently feeling alot more confident about it now i know it can be done. Im off to bed now, College enrolment tomorrow so i wont be back until about 4pm so ill check back for any more responses, and if everyone is ok with it then i will go ahead and add everything. So everyone feel free to add you pennies worth.
Ps. If i have the green light to go on with it ill add you some pics. And then keep it updated as i begin my journey into the planted world

 

[fish_keeper2]

as i have read it should work with little or no probs. just be sure to moniter the water stats closely. good luck with ur fish

 

[Siamese Fighter05]

Got back from college and started preparing to move the fish into their new home. The new tank was pretty much ready to go as the heater had brought it up to 26degrees and the filter had removed any floating debris. I just moved all the fakes and ornament in the current tank into the new one, then moved the corner filter and then cut some sponge from the rekord filter the size that would fit into the trio 2000. I then netted the fish and released them to their new home. They seemed fine straight away the cories werent breathing heavy and were just exploring and playing in the sand. They seemed hungry so i dropped two cory pellets and a few flakes, which they gobbled up. I was just wondering how often you reckon ill need to do water changes and how much? I gave my filters from the old tank a light clean, But not much because i wanted to get as much bacteria over to the new tank as possible.

 

[Siamese Fighter05]

Ok well i tested the water today and everything is fine, The readings are.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
PH: 7.0
This is day two into the clone, Im going to keep up with a 15% water change every other day and take reading the days between just incase i get a spike, and gradually reduce frequency until im sure its safe.
All the fish seem fine and diffently prefer the sand. So far so good Touch Wood

 

[Siamese Fighter05]

I did 20% water change yesterday and took some results today. Once again very good.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
Ph: 7
After taking these results and seeing everything was good i Went and got 7 zebra danios, Im sorry if you think i rushed it but im not expecting a spike now and the danios are just taking place of the neons. O yes i was also given Their last juli cory for free as it was alone and i mentioned i had one on its own so i was given it Hes/shes a little baby and isnt shy at all. The zebras are great, although cories are my favourite community fish because theyre so cute and i love watching them sit together, they dont really do much else except from the occasional chase. So the burst of life from these guys is good fun to watch and theyre colours are dazzling. I think i have my stock limit now although i wish i could add a few more cories of each species to bring the numbers up and then get a centre piece fish. i now have
Cories
2 albino
2 leopard
1 bronze
1 skunk
1 bandit
7 zebra danios
its a 22g is there any way i could add 3 more cories to bring the 1's up to 2's and then get a dwarf gorumai? I dont tihnk so buts it worth asking