Choking Eartheater

[mysteryfish]

I can't seem to find very much information on this type of cichlid. What I have found describes its behaviour as, "It's an eartheater. A sifter of sand. A rock gobbler. It is a bottom feeder that finds its food by sifting the substrate in search of morsels"

The problem is that it seems to have swallowed a pebble last night, though we cannot see it, so it may be something else causing the problem. He is breathing abnormally, with his mouth consistently open, gasping for air and with his gills in constant motion flapping heavily. This type of behaviour occurred once a few days ago and it was due to a pebble blockage which he unblocked himself. However, we see no pebble. During feeding today, he didn't eat and just hid inside a leafy plant. Very unusual for this voracious and lively cichlid. We tried hand feeding as well and the food was sucked in, but went right out one of the gills. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do? Should I try to get the pebble out myself somehow or just wait? Could it be an illness and not a pebble?

 

[CFC]

Net the fish and using wet hands gently hold the fish and take a look into its mouth, if you can see any blockage try to remove it using tweezers being very carefull not to damage the delicate gill rakers.

Earth eaters should never be kept on gravel, if the fish survives you should change the substrate to sand ASAP.

 

[mysteryfish]

I checked yesterday for blockage, I found none. Now my beautiful fish is gasping for air and doing sonmersaults. Is this the end or can I still save it? Is it a parasite? Gills look normal except for teh gasping and the fish is under stress due to the effort it makes but there are no external parasites that I can see. There are also other fish in teh tank a clown loach, 3 spotted gourami and a plecostamous. All seem to be doing fine. I did however have ablue drawf gourami die recently but we believe it was due to stress from the 3 spotted gourami.

Is this the end for my lovely cichlid? Please help.

thanks
ps. its about 2 yrs old

 

[loachylover]

Can i ask what size a tank you have him in?

Maybe it is a bad picture but to me the size of your Geophagus's eye look out of proportion to his body. IMHO the fish looks stunted and fish that get stunted will develop defomaties and not last as long as a healthy fish. If you look below you will see a pic on my geophagus that i ave had for 2+ years

I might be wrong but just trying to help figure out what could be wrong

 

[CFC]

Spinning doesnt sound good and without a definate set of symptoms there is no way of knowing what to treat for.
It could be that gravel has been forced through the gills and damaged the rakers which would prevent the fish from being able to process oxygen properly, this would lead to oxygen starvation and possible brain damage.

I'm sorry but i think you should expect the worst

 

[mysteryfish]

Unfortunately, this fish died today. I believe it was a Satanoperca jurupari or Satanoperca pappaterra. The aquarium store employees said it was parasites. The fish had lived for two years in the tank.

Anyway, at the store they didn't quite have anything the same. I did replace this unique fish with another small Geophagus though, and maybe I could get some help with identification on this new one. Here are a couple of pictures. Will be the behaviour be the same?

 

[CFC]

If your fish just died from possible parasites then why are you replacing it with another fish already and not only that another earth eater while you still have a gravel substrate?

 

[juanveldez]

I have to agree with CFC why in the world would you put another Geophagus through the same stuff that you just put your last one through..... IME your fish was stunted, looked in rough shape from the pics. and now your going to put another through that same situation? though I am going to give ya a break in that you never did say how big the tank was.

 

[mysteryfish]

Well, we asked about the gravel substrate issue at the store, and were assured that it was ok for a Geophagus. We brought our dead Satanoperca jurupari with us and after an inspection, they didn't think that it choked, but that it was parasites that caused the death. He had lived in the tank on the gravel fine for two years.

I think the parasites had more to do with stunted growth than the tank size. It is 20 gallons but we only had five fish in there, all under three inches. By the inch rule, we had at least an inch for growth on each fish.

Now the total inch count of our four fish is 9 and the tank looks kind of empty. (3 inch plecostamous, 2 inch dwarf gourami, 2 inch geophagus, 2 inch clown loach) I was hoping to add some more color to fill it out a little, some fish(es) that would stay out of the way of the clown loach and geophagus and occupy the middle or top area of the tank peacefully with the dwarf gourami. (a few neon tetras? a betta? genetically modified glo-fish?)

No one wants to take a stab at the new Geophagus ID? He's got a single dark spot on each side of of his body near the middle that maybe the flash minimized in the pictures. There's a little bit of a dark pattern on the top too. I was just looking for myself and thought maybe it was one of the following three? : 'Geophagus' steindachneri? Geophagus surinamensis?'Geophagus' crassilabris? Anyhow, he/she already appears to be more aggresive than the Satanoperca, chasing the clown loach and plecostamous a little.

 

[redgold]

First, toss the "inch rule" out the window, it means nothing with cichlids. You could keep 10 neons in a 10 gallon tank, but would you put a 10" oscar in a 10 gallon tank? I didn't think so. That rule of thumb works for fish that stay very small. There's huge increase in the mass of a fish as it grows, length is only one variable, and that rule does not account for the bigger, thicker body sizes of larger fish. Increased mass of larger fish means larger amounts of fishy waste in the water, and that will stunt growth if the tank is not highly and heavily filtered. 10 neons combined do not poop nearly as much as one 10" cichlid. I know your fish wasn't 10", but I use that to illustrate the point.


The open mouth, gasping and heavy gill movement, (notice any swelling around the snout or face, even if only very slight?), and spinning around would indicate to me a nasty internal bacterial infection. If you caught it early enough and power-dosed it with heavy duty antibiotics you might have saved it. As a last resort you could have put it in a bucket with a handful of epsom salt, that has been known to work.

 

[aardvarkfromspace]

The one that died didn't look too healthy, look at how skinny it was.. the new one doesn't look too great either to be honest. You cant always trust everything the LFS says.

 

[pica_nuttalli]

Well, we asked about the gravel substrate issue at the store, and were assured that it was ok for a Geophagus. We brought our dead Satanoperca jurupari with us and after an inspection, they didn't think that it choked, but that it was parasites that caused the death. He had lived in the tank on the gravel fine for two years.

If the fish died in your tank from parasites and you never added any sort of anti-parasite medication, your tank is still full of lethal parasites!! Again, why on earth did you get another fish? Simple logic should have suggested that was a bad idea.

think the parasites had more to do with stunted growth than the tank size. It is 20 gallons but we only had five fish in there, all under three inches. By the inch rule, we had at least an inch for growth on each fish.

If it had parasites bad enough to suddenly kill it, they aren't the reason the fish was stunted. A long term, low-level parasitic infection capable of stunting your fish wouldn't have resulted in a sudden, violent death.

The rule is actually "one gallon per inch of ADULT length for slender, thin-bodied fish under 5 inches of ADULT length". Only your dwarf gourami is (barely) covered by the guideline.

Now the total inch count of our four fish is 9 and the tank looks kind of empty. (3 inch plecostamous, 2 inch dwarf gourami, 2 inch geophagus, 2 inch clown loach) I was hoping to add some more color to fill it out a little, some fish(es) that would stay out of the way of the clown loach and geophagus and occupy the middle or top area of the tank peacefully with the dwarf gourami. (a few neon tetras? a betta? genetically modified glo-fish?)

If that's a common pleco, he has an adult size of over a foot. Clown loaches should be kept in groups and have an adult size of a foot (and should at least reach 4" or longer in the course of 2 years). The dwarf gourami is ok for a 20g tank. Your last eartheater had an adult length of 10" and should have been 10" since he was more than a year old. Your 20g tank is too small for these fish and you are stunting them, something that is not condoned on this forum. The fish you currently have shouldn't even be in that tank, much less any additional specimens.

No one wants to take a stab at the new Geophagus ID? He's got a single dark spot on each side of of his body near the middle that maybe the flash minimized in the pictures. There's a little bit of a dark pattern on the top too. I was just looking for myself and thought maybe it was one of the following three? : 'Geophagus' steindachneri? Geophagus surinamensis?'Geophagus' crassilabris? Anyhow, he/she already appears to be more aggresive than the Satanoperca, chasing the clown loach and plecostamous a little

What really irks me is that you have enough knowledge that you can rattle off all these scientific names but not enough sense to perform a simple Google search for adult sizes!

• Satanoperca jurupari -- 10", too big for a 20g
  'Geophagus' steindachneri -- 6", too big for a 20g
  Geophagus surinamensis -- 10", too big for a 20g
  'Geophagus' crassilabris -- 8", too big for a 20g

You need a bigger tank, anti-parasite meds and an LFS that isn't going to lie to you through their teeth! Since its pretty well evident that someone's been misinforming you about stocking your tank, I suggest that you also rethink the advice you've recieved about substrates.

 

[Loveless]

I suppose it is right to educate the original poster. But doing so by asking repetitive question designed to make the author feel bad isn't going to help.

mysteryfish: see if you can seek remedy to the parasite before adding more fishes. cleaning filter, gravel frequently in addition to mediation might help.