Chlorine killing Barbs

[gto_cowgirl]

Alright well i have had my tiger barbs for quiet a while but i use to live using well water but always used the chlorine remover just in case and never had any problems. About a month ago i moved to the city and on city water so i knew chlorine was definately in the water and made sure to put the conditioner in at the exact same time as the water and taught my boyfriend to do the same.

So yesterday i send my boyfriend out to do a water change on the tiger barb tank while i w/c the other tanks and come to find out later that after he filled the entire 29 gallon with water which takes a while, he never put conditioner in the tank until afterwards when i said something! So i panic and assume all the fish will die because they have been exposed to chlorine poisoning.

Few hours later i come to find the red tailed shark is dead and a few hours after that i find a dead barb floating. While the rest look like they are suffering and will die too. I decided then (don't know why i didn't do it sooner) to try to save them any way possible. I added 6 tablespoons of salt, 3 teaspoons of melafix and 3 teaspoons of water conditioner. All the chlorine had been taken out earlier but i figured anything might help.

I figured they would die during the night but i wake up to find that they seem to be doing better. Is there anyone's advice as to anything else i can do for them to recover? Or is this a permanent thing and they will die sooner or later and just suffering now? Because if they are just suffering for the rest of their life then i would rather just end it now for them as quick as possible.

I do understand that you are suppose to put water conditioner in as soon as new water goes into the tank. My boyfriend was just playing a gameboy and didn't remember to do this. So i know how to never let this happen, i just want help on what to do now to fix it.

 

[jams.alaskan]

What a very sad thing to happen. Your fish probably all have chlorine burns and the melafix tonic might help to sooth that. I'm not sure how much of the damage is reversible - only time will tell on that note. Very clean conditions will help I'm sure. Another concern for you is that the chlorine that was added can/will also kill your benificial bacteria so now you really need to watch for ammonia and nitrite spikes. The bacteria is too small for us to see if it made it through so doing those tests is the only way for us to determine if it's still alive (ie. levels stay good = still living bacteria colonies). Were you using a python to fill the tank? How do you treat the water for chlorine before it touchs the fish?
Also check if the water treatment you are using also helps to block chlorimide (I thing that's what it is) some city water has that as well as chlorine.
I want to wish you best of luck and thank you for posting about this experience as it may prevent others from making the same mistake.

ALASKA

 

[gto_cowgirl]

Thanks for your reply! Yeah, i cried all day yesterday after i found out. I have had those barbs and the shark for over 6 months now and were very close to me.

I didn't think about the bacteria problem, i will start testing my water every day to see if any ammonia or nitrites spike up. And if so then i'll do a water change.

Yeah, i was using the python to clean all the tanks. Usually as soon as the water starts going into the tank i pour the correct amount of Start Right right where the water is going in at. Also, i try to put the water going in the tank in an area the fish are not swimming around. I haven't had any problems doing this on well water and this last month on city water until now.

I really feel bad about this, and the very thought of these fish suffering is killing me inside too. I had my boyfriend try feeding them a little bit of sinking food that they use to love but he says they are to scared to venture out of their hiding holes. I also put some guppy fry in their tank to help but the fry just stay at the top and since the barbs are just hiding, the barbs never see them.

 

[Lateral Line]

>>> that after he filled the entire 29 gallon with water which takes a while

Do you mean he replaced the entire water content of the tank?

>>> I added 6 tablespoons of salt, 3 teaspoons of melafix

Why?

>>> helps to block chlorimide

Chloramine. Most modern water conditioners also eliminate Chloramine, but it is certainly worth checking. More and more utilities are using the wretched stuff.

 

[gto_cowgirl]

I usually do 75% water changes for all tank to get rid of most of the wastes. I like to make sure the aquariums are extra clean but i have AquaClear Filters so the bacteria is never hurt. AquaClear filters have sponges instead of cartridges so i have 2-3 sponges in each filter. I understand that taking out a long quantity of water can be dangerous because of the oxygen levels but I have had no problems.

Usually whenever the fish are stressed out, i put a tablespoon of salt per 10 gallons but to help the barbs and because the box said it helps gill function i added 2 tablespoons of salt. There is no problem with adding that much salt, you can even add up to 1 tablespoon per gallon of salt just have to do it slowly. Salt is a very good remedy for several problems so that is why i added it.

Melafix is a very good remedy for several problems also and it doesn't bother the biological system. I read on the Melafix bottle that it helps ulcers so i figured i would give it a try. 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons. Either way the melafix doesn't hurt fish.

Oh most times i use Start Right which says it gets rid of chlorines and chlorimides but i also added 3 teaspoons of amquel which is suppose to get rid of chlorine also. I added the amquel several hours after i added the start right just to make sure i got out all of the chlorine.

 

[gto_cowgirl]

Well it has been a couple of days and the rest of the barbs are still alive and seem to be fine. The only problem now is the barbs act just like they did when i first got them which is terrified whenever the light is on even though i have several plants in their aquarium. Not that I blame them.

I figured i would just leave the light out for a while to let them get through the chlorine deal before i try to get them use to the light again. Any suggestions?

Also, another thing i noticed was they use to sleep at the very top of the aquarium at night and now they seem to be sleeping in the middle of the aquarium near all of the plants. Is that a sign of anything? Also, any suggestions?

 

[Lateral Line]

You should aim to change 15-20% of the water a week. Water isn't just H2O, it is ages and stabilises, you are changing a vasy amount. This is not natural for fish. You are causing stress by doing so. I assume you are pre-heating the water you are adding to the same temperature - if not, such a large water change will swing the temperature enough to cause death by thermal shock.

Barbs come from freshwater, many of them from pristine freshwater with zero salt content. That is where they evolved, they do not need salt for their gills to function. I never use salt. Salt is positively dangerous for many species. The people that sell it tell you how great it is and "necessary" baecause people believe them and buy more. Unecessary salt is a stress agent.

Similaly, Melafix is good for a lot of things, but you do not have any of the problems it is good for. Routinely dosing your fish with unecessary medicines is simply stressing, and may weaken the effect of the medication should you actually need it some day.

Chlorine/Chloramine neutralisers work effectively and almost immediately. There is no need to add anything else to counter Chlorine or Chloramine, certainly not hours later.

Getting the fish used to dark is not going to help if you intend to put the light back on at some time, they will then have to get used to the light. By altering the regime, you are adding yet another stress factor. You will also damage your plants.

I think your fish are highly stressed. If your Chlorine/Chloramine levels are high, the gills will have taken some damage, this may recover, however, in some fish it never does. I think your excessive water changes and dosing with unecessary potions etc., are also partly to blame.

I think you need to chill out a little.

 

[gto_cowgirl]

Excuse Me?

I like to do a high water change to get rid of all nitrates that build up which only gets up to 5-10 at the most. I have several breeding friends that say large water changes are much better because it gives the fish much cleaner water than a 15-20% water change. Next, of course i'm doing the water changes to the temperature of the water of the tank. Do you think my fish would have lasted as long as they did if i poured fresh very cold water into their tank? I think not.

Next, most fish come from "freshwater" tanks. Salt is a very good healing agent for several problems and the reason the barbs had a gill function problem was if you knew anything about chlorine you would know that chlorine affects the gills. It blocks oxygen from getting to the gills thus the reason i put in a agent that helps gill function. Do you think i put salt in their tank all the time? No i do not, only when my fish are stressed which is very rare because i take care of my fish very good. Just because i am a nobody on this board does not mean i do not have the fish experience and knowledge as anyone else.

Did i say i was routinely dosing my fish with melafix?! I barely ever use melafix! In fact the last time i used melafix was about 4-5 months ago when my angelfish were courting which involves tearing up fins and therefore i added the melafix to help their fins. I added the melafix because it "may" help the barbs this time in which fact i wasn't the only one who thought so.

I'm not trying to get my fish use to the dark. I'm trying to let them relax while they may be fighting any other chlorine "breathing" problems. Whenever i turn on the light they panic and hide under the plants otherwise they would be swimming around like normal little barbs.

I'm sorry that my methods are not like yours and i did not post on this board to hear your criticism. I was looking for help and the only thing you have done is criticized everything i have done and offered no help other than to "chill out". I care about my fish and i cannot "chill out" while i think my fish suffer. Any fish lover would feel the same.

 

[Lateral Line]

I have no wish to get into a bun fight with you, however..

>>> I was looking for help

... I offered you my opinion on a number of issues, if you do not want other peoples opinions, why ask?

>>>
I have several breeding friends that say large water changes are much better because it gives the fish much cleaner water than a 15-20% water change.
<<<

When breeding, there are sometime advantages to changing large quantities of water, I know from experience as a barb specialist who has been breeding them for over 30 years. You did not say you were breeding - I'm not psychic, I can only go by what you post can't I? Similaly...

>>> i'm doing the water changes to the temperature of the water of the tank.

... you didn't say so, it seemed prudent to ask. You also said it was not you that did the change - did he balance the temperature correctly? Also a prudent question. With a water change that great, a very small difference in the water temperature becomes significant.

>>> if you knew anything about chlorine ... affects the gills

Well, yes, if you read what I wrote you will note I did say...

>>> the gills will have taken some damage,

... when I was at university, I did a lot of work with Chlorine and other halogens - I think I do know a little about Chlorine and it's effects on biological systems.

>>> Do you think i put salt in their tank all the time?

I don't know, again, you didn't say - a lot of people DO routinely dose their tanks with salt - how am I supposed to know from your message that you are not one of them?

>>> Did i say i was routinely dosing my fish with melafix?

You said you added Melafix to a tank that showed no signs of any biological problems that Melafix addresses. I don't believe that is a good idea. Again, as to whether it is something you routinely do, how on Earth am I supposed to know?

In summary, I have made a number of observations based on the information you have given.

On the internet, there will be times when you hear views that are not the same as yours, you can ignore them if you wish, however, if you only accept views that agree with your own, you will limit your learning - simple fact of life.

 

[jams.alaskan]

Hi Cowgirl, How are they doing now? I just wanted to say that I also agree that you are changing too much water on a regular basis. Your Nitrate level that you are trying to combat is really not that high. Perhaps a litlle less feeding and maybe 20 percent water changes once a week would be better. It would ease the large swings that your tank is going through now that you don't have well water. I also have a well and I'm now even more grateful that I don't have to wonder what's in my tap water that the city is providing. Must be hard to get used to after having it so easy before.
Have your levels for ammonia or nitrite changed or did your bacteria make it through the chlorine poisoning? I'm hoping that it did.
I have used melafix to help stressed/injured fish it seems to do the job if the situation is not too advanced... I like it, kind of a gentle tonic really...

ALASKA

Lateral Line is pretty good help on the forums. I've been reading posts of all sorts for months now and I feel pretty confident that I know who's advice I'd take into account if I was having trouble. He/she is right up there in the top 20. The written word is a bit of a "cold fish" and just lays there in a post for us to read with any emotion that we bring to it. I'd be shocked if "chill out" was meant in any other way then to relax and do less... Honest, I don't want you to have your feelings hurt, just roll with this one if you can and all wil be well
Best of luck with the fish, I was glad to know that you hadn't lost more right away!

 

[gto_cowgirl]

I didn't offer the information about the salt and melafix, you are right. I figured when I mentioned that I just added it to the tank that you would figure that I do not do this often. I know some people do this often when it is not necessary but I do not, I only use salt when I think it could help.

Besides I panicked, and it said it helped gill function so therefore that is the reason why I used the salt. The melafix is something that just usually helps several things so I figured why not.

I can't believe that adding these simple medications would stress out fish. Not at what I put into the tank, by saying it stressed them out, you would also say it stresses out fish that do have the symptoms. It seems after a long period of time that it would/could stress out fish but I don't think a one time dosage at those levels could do that at the extreme that you are saying.

I didn't say I was breeding barbs but I do have friends that do breed, not specifically barbs (I wish) but angelfish/discus and other fish. I understand that most people do not feel comfortable doing a large water change but I believe it is very beneficial for the fish. Whenever I’m (or boyfriend) is cleaning the tank, there is so MUCH wastes that I feel the tank is absolutely filthy and I want to keep it as clean as possible. If I only did a 10-20% water change then the nitrates would slowly add up and get higher. I mean this is how I think:
Even if you do a 50% water change with nitrates at 10, then it will go down to 5 so next week it will build to 15. So you do another 50% w/c and you have about 7 ½. See how the nitrates slowly add up? Its only a matter of time before it goes past the normal level.

I do not stock past the limit for fish but I want to make sure that their tank is very healthy and clean is the whole reason I do it this way. I taught my boyfriend how to keep the water near the exact same temperature for the fish whenever putting new water in so it is always very close to the temp that it was before.

I got into this business with angelfish. Therefore I was taught how to do many things for fish by my friends that breed angelfish. (Most serious people that keep angelfish, breed them). I have looked and read sever posts about barbs but I never find enough information about fish like I did with angelfish. With angelfish I found several forums devoted just to Angelfish and learned so much but here there is barely any information about barbs.

I have read several tropical fish books and looked for barb books but they only cover the basic information which I already know. My ways seem so different then ways of people on this board because this is how angelfish breeders take care of their fish. When angelfish are sick you add salt and up the temperature for a couple of days and usually everything is okay. Also when angelfish are sick then you do large water changes to get rid of all the bad bacteria. That is another reason why I do large water changes because of all the bad bacteria that builds up and I’m not talking about the nitrates.

There are so many times when fish owners could skip medication if they just did large water changes to get rid of all of those bad bacteria that could make the fish worse/sick if their immune system is compromised. And I didn’t mean to take it out all on you but it seems whenever I try to help people any way on this board they will never listen when i myself and other angelfish breeders have used these methods and its worked fine. I even have one good friend that’s a discus breeder and angelfish breeder and all of these methods she practices as well.

ALASKA –
Just had my boyfriend test the Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates and it looks like the beneficial bacteria is still there! This is great news. The Ammonia and Nitrites are zero while the Nitrates are 5.0

I’m sorry if I seem upset, I just want the best for my fish. I really do care and I’m open to opinions but many of my methods are practices from Angelfish/Discus breeders and they also have been doing it from 7-30 years. Whenever I needed help with my other fish they were always there and told me simple actions to do instead of all this medications and how to keep them from getting sick. I just wish some people would hear out my methods too instead of just what everyone else says. People take care of their fish differently.