Can someone please explain the Waste to Ammonia to NO2 to NO3 cycle to me im a bit confused.....

[Goose3080]

OK, so I kind of understand the cycle, fish waste and uneaten food turn into Ammonia.....

Ammonia then get converted to Nitrites (NO2) by friendly bacteria.............

Nitrites then get converted to Nitrates by Friendly bacteria.........

You then remove Nitrates by doing water changes or Live plants etc.

However, the friendly Bactria require ammonia and oxygen to survive, my ammonia levels are zero, so what the hell is keeping my bacteria alive ? im feeding my fish every 2 to 3 days, on tetra crisps, I can tell by my NO2 levels that the friendly bacteria is there to convert ammonia to NO2, but the bacteria to convert NO2 to NO3 isnt fully established yet, I did multiple water changes to get my NO2 and NO3 levels down before, and now my filter broke down and having to buy a new one, the new filter is an All Pond Solutions EF-250 external filter, I took the filter media out of my old filter which was much smaller than my new filter and put the media into my new external filter, I guess its just going to take a bit of time for the bacteria to build up, however, I lost my Pleco tonight, tested the water and had a bit of an NO2 spike, I threw some API Aqua Essential into the tank which instantly dropped my NO2 and NO3 levels to save the other fish, however, its advised not to use this if you're trying to cycle a tank as it detoxifies NO2, NO3 and ammonia.

Now I could add a bit of Ammonia into the tank to help the friendly bacteria grow, but my fear is it will just be converted into NO2, fish will die, and the water need treating again.

 

[Rocky998]

No it stays at 0 because the bacteria are constantly eating it away.
They will adjust to the amount of ammonia in the water and there should not be ANY ammonia in the water that's why we cycle it.
Bacteria can go dormant for a week or two I believe as well so it's just fine

 

[Goose3080]

No it stays at 0 because the bacteria are constantly eating it away.
They will adjust to the amount of ammonia in the water and there should not be ANY ammonia in the water that's why we cycle it.
Bacteria can go dormant for a week or two I believe as well so it's just fine

Ok thank you, so where are the nitrites coming from ? and where is the bacteria to consume the nitrites ?

 

[Rocky998]

Ok thank you, so where are the nitrites coming from ?

Your nitrates may not be keeping up with them...

 

[Goose3080]

Your nitrates may not be keeping up with them...

Thank you, if you scroll down on this page a little, https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/... Nitrogen Cycle,get converted into food again.

I seem to be missing some of that beneficial bacteria #2 which should be converting Nitrites into Nitrates, obviously there is some there because I do have some Nitrates, but they arnt the problem, Nitrites are the issue.

 

[Rocky998]

Thank you, if you scroll down on this page a little, https/www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/nitrogen-cycle#:~:text=What is the Nitrogen Cycle,get converted into food again.

I seem to be missing some of that beneficial bacteria #2 which should be converting Nitrites into Nitrates, obviously there is some there because I do have some Nitrates, but they arnt the problem, Nitrites are the issue.

Yah. They eventually will get there. If you have fish in the tank you need to be doing water changes every single time you see ammonia or nitrites over 0.

 

[Essjay]

Now I could add a bit of Ammonia into the tank to help the friendly bacteria grow, but my fear is it will just be converted into NO2, fish will die, and the water need treating again.

Do you still have fish in the tank? If you do, never ever add ammonia.





Fish excrete ammonia 24 hours a day. The good bacteria 'eat' this ammonia as soon as it is made. There will always be a tiny amount of ammonia in the water, but far too small for our test kits to detect. This is simply due to the fact that the ammonia must travel by water circulation to the bacteria so they can 'eat' it.
Similarly with nitrite. The ammonia eaters make nitrite 24 hours a day and there is a very low level in a tank while it travels to the bacteria, again far too low for us to detect.

It takes longer to grow enough nitrite eaters to remove all the nitrite than it takes to grow enough ammonia eaters. During a fish-in cycle, water changes should be done whenever either ammonia or nitrite shows above zero, so to deal with the nitrite spike, you need to do water changes, daily if necessary.


You could try using Tetra Safe Start as this is known to contain the correct species of nitrite eaters. It won't work instantly but it will speed things up.

Another thing you can do which would help is to use live plants. These use the ammonia made by the fish as fertiliser and plants turn ammonia into protein not nitrite. Even a few bunches of elodea with the stems left to float will have an impact.

 

[Goose3080]

Do you still have fish in the tank? If you do, never ever add ammonia.





Fish excrete ammonia 24 hours a day. The good bacteria 'eat' this ammonia as soon as it is made. There will always be a tiny amount of ammonia in the water, but far too small for our test kits to detect. This is simply due to the fact that the ammonia must travel by water circulation to the bacteria so they can 'eat' it.
Similarly with nitrite. The ammonia eaters make nitrite 24 hours a day and there is a very low level in a tank while it travels to the bacteria, again far too low for us to detect.

It takes longer to grow enough nitrite eaters to remove all the nitrite than it takes to grow enough ammonia eaters. During a fish-in cycle, water changes should be done whenever either ammonia or nitrite shows above zero, so to deal with the nitrite spike, you need to do water changes, daily if necessary.


You could try using Tetra Safe Start as this is known to contain the correct species of nitrite eaters. It won't work instantly but it will speed things up.

Another thing you can do which would help is to use live plants. These use the ammonia made by the fish as fertiliser and plants turn ammonia into protein not nitrite. Even a few bunches of elodea with the stems left to float will have an impact.

Thanks, yes the tank if fully stocked, minus 1 pleco which I lost last night, (gutted !!! my favorite fish), the tank was doing fine until the filter broke down, then all panic broke loose as I rushed out to get another, I transfered the old media to the new filter to help with the bacteria, but the media from the old filter is tiny compared to the new filter, better than nothing though I guess.

ive just ordered some water wisteria a couple of days ago, still waiting for that to arrive, and have some duckweed in there now, whats left of it, (its not taking over as the damn guppies are eating it) and also some dwarf water lettuce in the tank, which also seems to be decreasing in size.

Im throwing in these to help get that good bacteria going: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B076VHLT7H/?tag=

and im also putting this in if I get any spikes, although its a water conditioner, its really an all in one for those emergencies, its a start up, a water changer / conditioner and an NH & NO destroyer, after my pleco died I tested the water, NO2 was at about 4ppm, 10mins after using this it was down to 0.5ppm, tested NO2 again this morning and it's somewhere in between 0.5 and 0.25ppm, I'll put another dose in tonight which should kill off the rest of the NO2: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B096N3K99J/?tag=

 

[Essjay]

There are only two bottled bacteria which are known to contain the correct nitrite eaters - Tetra Safe Start and Dr Tim's One & Only (this last one is harder to get in the UK). That's because both the bacteria species and the means of detecting them are patented. This is why I suggested trying the Tetra product.

That water conditioner detoxifies both ammonia and nitrite temporarily. After around 48 hours according to their website, they revert back to their toxic state. It does not remove or 'kill off' nitrite.
The way to use these products is by doing a water change every day while tests show readings of above zero and using the product to treat the new water. This will keep the fish safe between water changes, but another water change needs to be done after 24 hours to remove the now undetoxified ammonia/nitrite. This is what API also recommend doing. From the FAQ section for this product -

• How long will AQUA ESSENTIAL bind ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate for?

Once AQUA ESSENTIAL is dosed it will bind the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate for up to 48 hours or longer. Testing is the best way to judge if additional dosing is necessary. In water conditions with highly elevated levels, overstocked with fish, or extremely overfed we always recommend a partial water change after 24 hours to aid the fish in the best water quality.

It does take time for the nitrite eaters to grow - longer than the ammonia eaters. And the nitrite eaters can't get started until enough ammonia eaters have grown to make some nitrite.

 

[Goose3080]

There are only two bottled bacteria which are known to contain the correct nitrite eaters - Tetra Safe Start and Dr Tim's One & Only (this last one is harder to get in the UK). That's because both the bacteria species and the means of detecting them are patented. This is why I suggested trying the Tetra product.

That water conditioner detoxifies both ammonia and nitrite temporarily. After around 48 hours according to their website, they revert back to their toxic state. It does not remove or 'kill off' nitrite.
The way to use these products is by doing a water change every day while tests show readings of above zero and using the product to treat the new water. This will keep the fish safe between water changes, but another water change needs to be done after 24 hours to remove the now undetoxified ammonia/nitrite. This is what API also recommend doing. From the FAQ section for this product -




It does take time for the nitrite eaters to grow - longer than the ammonia eaters. And the nitrite eaters can't get started until enough ammonia eaters have grown to make some nitrite.

Thanks.....

In that case, I have a bottle of heated water ready to go in, it will allow a change of 25-30%, so tonight when I get home from work I'll do that water change, give it an hour to mix in and measure the NO2 again, if it's still up a bit, I'll put some of that API in again to reduce it for now and get some safe start ordered.

Those nitrite eaters better get a move on.....

Are those pure aquarium balls I'm using no good either then ? They apparently contain millions of bacteria and enzymes ?

 

[Slaphppy7]

Are those pure aquarium balls I'm using no good either then ? They apparently contain millions of bacteria and enzymes ?

More than likely a waste of $$$ ... there's many "snake oil" products in the hobby, that are completely useless & unneeded...regardless of what pet shop employees will tell you

 

[Essjay]

Those bacteria balls "help to establish new biological aquarium filters and are packed with millions of healthy bacteria to help combat harmful nitrite and ammonia levels" to quote APS website. But they won't be the species of nitrite eaters which grow in aquariums because that species has been patented so they can't use them. It will contain a different species of nitrite eaters, ones that don't normally establish in aquariums. So they aren't lying by saying their product contains bacteria which help combat nitrite, they are just not telling the whole truth.

 

[Slaphppy7]

Those bacteria balls "help to establish new biological aquarium filters and are packed with millions of healthy bacteria to help combat harmful nitrite and ammonia levels" to quote APS website. But they won't be the species of nitrite eaters which grow in aquariums because that species has been patented so they can't use them. It will contain a different species of nitrite eaters, ones that don't normally establish in aquariums. So they aren't lying by saying their product contains bacteria which help combat nitrite, they are just not telling the whole truth.

If said bacteria are even viable anymore...

 

[Goose3080]

Ok so I've just ordered this : https://www.swelluk.com/dr-tim-s-one-only-freshwater#dr-tim-s-one-only-freshwater-60ml-2oz

EDIT: ive just completed a 30% water change as soon as I got home, before this I tested NO2, the result was 0.5ppm, but thats obviously the API stuff still at work, whilst those NO2's are dormant i'll get them out of there, in a hour i'll test NO2 again in the tank.

Ive filled my 27 litre bottle back up with tap water, API water conditioner, an air stone, 2 of the pure aquarium balls and the tinyest pinch of food ever, hopefully I might be able to get that good bacteria going in the water before I pour it in tomorrow.

 

[Essjay]

It takes longer than a day to get the nitrite eaters going. I would just use plain dechlorinated water to do a water change, and use the new water as soon as it's mixed.


Both ammonia and nitrite still show up in the tests in the detoxified forms. If you had a reading of 0.5 nitrite, that's how much nitrite is in the tank detoxified or not. All the API stuff does is stop it killing the fish for a few hours.