Can I Still Use Fishless Cycling?

[ey2006]

I have a 29g tank and had 4 clown loaches, 6 neon tetras, 2 bristlenosed plecos and 2 platys.

All the fish have died in the past few days, the only survivors are the 2 plays, 2 bristlenoses and the 2 remaining tetras.

I think I added the fish too quickly and caused a mini cycle without realising it, plus I had a bout of ich.

I have decided to start again and am going to cylce my tank for the coming weeks to get it to a mature state.

I really want to try the fishless cycling method but I still have 6 fishes in the tank. I don't have a separate quarantine tank, but I do have a 5g fish bowl. Would it be feasible to put the 6 fishes in the bowl for a week or two while I try and cycle the tank (fishless) with ammonia? The fish bowl doesn't have a filter or heater so I don't think the fish will do well.

Are there any good articles out there on cylcing with fish as most articles I seem to find are on fishless cycling. I don't want to abandon the fishes in order to be able to do a fishless cycle. Then again, the tetras and platys are tiny, so would they be able to excrete enough waste to create ammonia spikes?

If I were to add ammonia into the tank while the fish were in there, would it be really hazardous?

Thanks for reading, hopefully someone can point me in the right direction as I want to get it right this time and not experience any more casulties.

 

[MegTheFish]

No, it wouldn't be a good idea to put your remaining fish in a 5 gallon bowl without a heater or filteration.
Just keep your fish in there tank, and let the tank cycle. Get a test kit for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite, and test for those daily. If any of the levels start to rise to toxic levels, do a small water change. Keep on doing this until you get a reading of 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia and a low reading of nitrates.

 

[ey2006]

No, it wouldn't be a good idea to put your remaining fish in a 5 gallon bowl without a heater or filteration.
Just keep your fish in there tank, and let the tank cycle. Get a test kit for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite, and test for those daily. If any of the levels start to rise to toxic levels, do a small water change. Keep on doing this until you get a reading of 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia and a low reading of nitrates.

MegTheFish, thanks for the quick reply.

I was thinking the same (the fish would suffer in the small bowl).

Would the tank still cycle successfully, when compared to fishless cycling? IF the ammonia and nitrate levels never spike, and I eventually get a reading of 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia and a low reading of nitrates, does this mean my tank has cycled? Or do I need to check/test daily to see if the ammonia or nitrate levels have spiked?

 

[ey2006]

I just had a few more questions about cycling my tank:

* Approximately, how long would it take to cycle with the fish in the tank already?
* Hopefully it will take a few weeks and not a few months, as I'd rather buy another tank to use as a quarantine tank just to speed up the process.
* How often should I change the water?
* Should I feed them 2 times a day like usual or feed them more/less now that I am cycling?
* I am also using "Cycle", from Hagen which is said to speed up the cycling process.
you can click here link http/www.theaquariumshop.com.au/shopexd.asp?id=401 to see the product

* Is "Cycle" similar to Bio-Spira? They don't sell Bio Spira where I live so hopefully "Cycle" can assist with speeding up the cycling process.

* If I cycle with the current lot of fish, would the water in my tank experience a mini-cycle when I slowly introduce new fish that are larger than these small fish that I currently have?

 

[ey2006]

I just tested the water and the readings are:

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 5
Nitrate 10
PH 7.2

What does it mean if Ammonia is 0? Does it imply that I have already had an ammonia spike and the Ammonia has already been converted to Nitrite?

Its the first water test I've conducted and the tank has been running for about 6 weeks.

 

[Dorkhedeos]

i dont know much about cycling, but i know if you just leave your fish in there and wait a week or 2, it will be cycled. i wouldnt add anymore fish for a month if i were you. im pretty sure cycle doesnt do much. bio spira works because there is actually live bacteria inside the pouch, which is why this product is usually refrigerated

 

[dwarfgourami]

Hi ey2006

* Approximately, how long would it take to cycle with the fish in the tank already?

[/quote]

Hard to tell, as it's difficult to know where you are in the cycle and not all tanks cycle the same way. But hopefully not more than 4-6 weeks.

[/quote]
How often should I change the water
[/quote]

Every time the ammonia or nitrite readings go over 0.5 ppm (check daily)


[/quote]
* Should I feed them 2 times a day like usual or feed them more/less now that I am cycling?[/quote]
[/quote]

Safer to feed less often when cycling- once a day or even every other day

[/quote]
* I am also using "Cycle", from Hagen which is said to speed up the cycling process.
* Is "Cycle" similar to Bio-Spira? They don't sell Bio Spira where I live so hopefully "Cycle" can assist with speeding up the cycling process.[/quote]

This is generally agreed to be less effective than BioSpira, as it does not contain live bacteria. If you can get filter squeezings from somebody else's mature tank that would help. If not, patience and water changes will get you there in the end.

[/quote]
* If I cycle with the current lot of fish, would the water in my tank experience a mini-cycle when I slowly introduce new fish that are larger than these small fish that I currently have?
[/quote]

Tbh in a 29 gallon tank you are not looking at enormously big fish anyway. Those clown loaches could not have lived their whole lives in that tank. Plan for something not above 4-5 inches, and introduce slowly, after cycle is finished. And don't forget to up the numbers of your tetras when the cycle is over.

 

[ey2006]

i dont know much about cycling, but i know if you just leave your fish in there and wait a week or 2, it will be cycled. i wouldnt add anymore fish for a month if i were you. im pretty sure cycle doesnt do much. bio spira works because there is actually live bacteria inside the pouch, which is why this product is usually refrigerated

Thanks for the feedback. Why would I need to wait awhile after the cycling process before adding more fish? Is this to make sure that the new fish would be able to adopt to the water?

Unfortunately I don't think they sell Bio spira here....so I'll just continue using Cycle anyway.

========

Hi dwarfgourami, thanks for the helpful response, at least I know what to do in order to get the tank properly cycled.

If the ammonia level is 0, but the Nitrite is at 5.0, should I change the water immediately?

Also what temperature should the water be during the cycling process?

 

[Dorkhedeos]

well, like i said, i know nothing about cycling except that it has to be done. i have no test kits, so even after i knew my tank was cycled, i would still wait a week or 2 just to make sure the tank is stable. this week also allows your fish to recover from the cycle. sorry if i m not making any sense and yu shouldnt listtn to this advice until somebody confirms it because but ive been awake for 18 hours and i have to wake up in 3 hours to go to school(if i actually funush my project)

 

[ey2006]

well, like i said, i know nothing about cycling except that it has to be done. i have no test kits, so even after i knew my tank was cycled, i would still wait a week or 2 just to make sure the tank is stable. this week also allows your fish to recover from the cycle. sorry if i m not making any sense and yu shouldnt listtn to this advice until somebody confirms it because but ive been awake for 18 hours and i have to wake up in 3 hours to go to school(if i actually funush my project)

Thanks Dorkhedeos, I agree, I think it would be better to wait a week or two before adding fish to make sure the tank is fully ready for it. Hope you finished your assignment on time!

I am going to do another water test later today and I was wondering if my Ammonia level stays at 0 the next few days, while Nitrite slowly decreases, how can I tell if I've already had an Ammonia spike already and hence almost completed the cycle?

I can't be sure since there was no Ammonia when I performed the first water test.

 

[DebraAustin]

well, like i said, i know nothing about cycling except that it has to be done. i have no test kits, so even after i knew my tank was cycled, i would still wait a week or 2 just to make sure the tank is stable. this week also allows your fish to recover from the cycle. sorry if i m not making any sense and yu shouldnt listtn to this advice until somebody confirms it because but ive been awake for 18 hours and i have to wake up in 3 hours to go to school(if i actually funush my project)

Thanks Dorkhedeos, I agree, I think it would be better to wait a week or two before adding fish to make sure the tank is fully ready for it. Hope you finished your assignment on time!

I am going to do another water test later today and I was wondering if my Ammonia level stays at 0 the next few days, while Nitrite slowly decreases, how can I tell if I've already had an Ammonia spike already and hence almost completed the cycle?

I can't be sure since there was no Ammonia when I performed the first water test.

I recently completed a fishless cycle and here is what I learned. You need to test daily because the ammonia may be at a low point when you test and could rise again as more waste products, such as uneaten food and feces are deposited on the bottom of the tank. When you test for several days in a row with no ammonia and nitrite continue to watch your nitrates. Each level of contaminant has a spike and much be watched closely. If your nitrates start to climb above 20ppm you should do a water change of about 25-30% in order to bring it down to safe levels. Once your nitrates have quit spiking quickly and your ammonia and nitrites stay at zero, then your tank is fully cycled.

With each addition of fish you must continue to test daily because you may start a mini cycle and need to do water changes more frequently until your bacteria have grown enough to accomodate the new load of contaminants.

Once you have added all the fish you are going to have in the tank you will need to continue to test daily until all your parameters are stable. Then you can start to test less frequently and eventually get to testing just once a week to make sure everything is still OK.

As for stocking your tank, the rule of thumb is 1" of mature fish for every gallon. That would mean that you could have 29" of mature fish (don't look at the size they are when you buy them, how big they will get when they grow up is what is important). So make sure you check and see how big the fish you already have are going to get and then add only enough fish to bring you up 29" total. I'm not sure how big what you have gets, but you may have already overstocked your tank.

I hope this clears things up and good luck. I don't think you need to wait a week or two once it has stabilized, but add just a few fish at a time and watch carefully for minicycles. Good luck!

Debra

 

[ey2006]

Good news! Today my Nitrite has gone down from 5.0 to 2.0. Also, this morning, after feeding the fish, I put in 2 capfuls of Cycle. I think I'll put abit in each day to help mature the tank.

I tested the water again about 5 hours ago before changing 15% the water.

These were the results (before water change):

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 2.0
Nitrate 40
PH 7.2

5 hours later, I checked the water stats again to see if the water change had any effect and the stats were:

Ammonia 0
Nitrate 2.0
Nitrite 60
PH 7.0

Are these stats normal during the cycling phase? I still am not 100% certain if I've gone through the Ammonia spike yet (my tank has been running for 7 weeks now, though have had fishes in it which caused mini cycles)

Nitrate seems to be going down steadily, BUT nitrate is rising!! Is this normal? I'm slowly getting there, hopefully you don't mind me posting the results of my water tests as I want to know if I'm on the right track with the cycling phase.

Also, what temperature should the water be during the cycling stage? I've set my tank at 30oC for the past few days (up from 28oC).

well, like i said, i know nothing about cycling except that it has to be done. i have no test kits, so even after i knew my tank was cycled, i would still wait a week or 2 just to make sure the tank is stable. this week also allows your fish to recover from the cycle. sorry if i m not making any sense and yu shouldnt listtn to this advice until somebody confirms it because but ive been awake for 18 hours and i have to wake up in 3 hours to go to school(if i actually funush my project)

Thanks Dorkhedeos, I agree, I think it would be better to wait a week or two before adding fish to make sure the tank is fully ready for it. Hope you finished your assignment on time!

I am going to do another water test later today and I was wondering if my Ammonia level stays at 0 the next few days, while Nitrite slowly decreases, how can I tell if I've already had an Ammonia spike already and hence almost completed the cycle?

I can't be sure since there was no Ammonia when I performed the first water test.

I recently completed a fishless cycle and here is what I learned. You need to test daily because the ammonia may be at a low point when you test and could rise again as more waste products, such as uneaten food and feces are deposited on the bottom of the tank. When you test for several days in a row with no ammonia and nitrite continue to watch your nitrates. Each level of contaminant has a spike and much be watched closely. If your nitrates start to climb above 20ppm you should do a water change of about 25-30% in order to bring it down to safe levels. Once your nitrates have quit spiking quickly and your ammonia and nitrites stay at zero, then your tank is fully cycled.

With each addition of fish you must continue to test daily because you may start a mini cycle and need to do water changes more frequently until your bacteria have grown enough to accomodate the new load of contaminants.

Once you have added all the fish you are going to have in the tank you will need to continue to test daily until all your parameters are stable. Then you can start to test less frequently and eventually get to testing just once a week to make sure everything is still OK.

As for stocking your tank, the rule of thumb is 1" of mature fish for every gallon. That would mean that you could have 29" of mature fish (don't look at the size they are when you buy them, how big they will get when they grow up is what is important). So make sure you check and see how big the fish you already have are going to get and then add only enough fish to bring you up 29" total. I'm not sure how big what you have gets, but you may have already overstocked your tank.

I hope this clears things up and good luck. I don't think you need to wait a week or two once it has stabilized, but add just a few fish at a time and watch carefully for minicycles. Good luck!

Debra

Hi Debra, thank you for the great insight and advice, it makes a lot more sense now since I still didn't completely understand the cycling phase when Ammonia turns to Nitrite and Nitrite turns to Nitrate! The tricky part is not knowing when to expect the spike in Ammonia or Nitrite or if there has already been one without you knowing it, this applies to my case as I didn't get the API master test kit until yesterday....so I may have had massive levels of ammonia in the last few weeks, but didn't have test kits to attest this.

Does this mean that, generally speaking, frequent water changes would help in reducing Ammonia and Nitrite? Would it also help in reducing Nitrate?

I'm going to continue testing the water at least once or maybe even twice daily, to see if Ammonia ever goes up (its been 0 for the last 2 days) but if Ammonina or Nitrite does spike, would it be at high levels for at least 24 hours? It wouldn't rise to toxic levels for a few hours and then go down again would it? It would be really hard to pick up if this was the case as I might only be testing the water once every 24 hours.

Thanks for the other pointers, I will definitely keep them in mind over the next few weeks.

Did you add fish straight away after your tank cycled or waited a bit?

 

[DebraAustin]

These were the results (before water change):

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 2.0
Nitrate 40
PH 7.2

5 hours later, I checked the water stats again to see if the water change had any effect and the stats were:

Ammonia 0
Nitrate 2.0
Nitrite 60
PH 7.0

Are these stats normal during the cycling phase? I still am not 100% certain if I've gone through the Ammonia spike yet (my tank has been running for 7 weeks now, though have had fishes in it which caused mini cycles)

Nitrate seems to be going down steadily, BUT nitrate is rising!! Is this normal? I'm slowly getting there, hopefully you don't mind me posting the results of my water tests as I want to know if I'm on the right track with the cycling phase.

Also, what temperature should the water be during the cycling stage? I've set my tank at 30oC for the past few days (up from 28oC).

Hi Debra, thank you for the great insight and advice, it makes a lot more sense now since I still didn't completely understand the cycling phase when Ammonia turns to Nitrite and Nitrite turns to Nitrate! The tricky part is not knowing when to expect the spike in Ammonia or Nitrite or if there has already been one without you knowing it, this applies to my case as I didn't get the API master test kit until yesterday....so I may have had massive levels of ammonia in the last few weeks, but didn't have test kits to attest this.

Does this mean that, generally speaking, frequent water changes would help in reducing Ammonia and Nitrite? Would it also help in reducing Nitrate?

I'm going to continue testing the water at least once or maybe even twice daily, to see if Ammonia ever goes up (its been 0 for the last 2 days) but if Ammonina or Nitrite does spike, would it be at high levels for at least 24 hours? It wouldn't rise to toxic levels for a few hours and then go down again would it? It would be really hard to pick up if this was the case as I might only be testing the water once every 24 hours.

Thanks for the other pointers, I will definitely keep them in mind over the next few weeks.

Did you add fish straight away after your tank cycled or waited a bit?

What it looks to me is happening is that you are coming to the end of your cycling. The nitrates that actually went up after a water change bother me and I think you should test it one more time. First do a nitrate test on your tap water to see if there are any nitrates in it to begin with. Then test the tank water. Your nitrates should never be more than 20ppm above what your tap water read. Since my tap water reads 0 nitrates, then I should never have a reading above 20ppm, because that is when you start to reach toxic levels for your fish. I would continue to test all three every day and if necessary do daily water changes until your nitrate level comes down. I think you are on your way to the end of the cycling.

I did indeed add a couple fish at the end of my cycling. The reason being is that when you do a fishless cycle you do a massive water change (90%) to get rid of any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate residue and if you don't add fish right away your bacteria start to die off after 24 hours because they don't have anything to feed on (you don't add any more ammonia and there is no fish or food waste to eat). Since you already have fish you could wait a little while after your tank has stabilized and then add a few more fish. Always watch for a minicycle when you add more fish.

Glad I could be of some help. I am a newbie, but my fishless cycle worked like a dream. I will be adding a few more fish this week and then will continue testing until my tank has stabilized and my little family will be all set.

Debra

 

[ey2006]

I did a water test earlier today, here are the results:

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 2.0
Nitrate 20
PH 7.2

So Nitrite hasn't really gone down it seems, but at least Nitrate has drastically reduced!

I tested the water before changing 25% of the water, before putting the new water in, I put some water conditioner in and water 10 minutes before testing this water, before putting it in the tank.

Here are the results of the tap water (with conditioner):

Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
PH 7.6

Is this normal for tap water? Is ph too high? I am aiming to keep the tank water at ph levels of around 7. Also with Ammonia at 0.25, is there anything I can do about this? Will this affect the fish or the cycling in any way? Ammonia has been at 0 for the last few days so I'm guessing the filter is doing its job on Ammonia!

The water I'm adding is 70% cold and 30% hot water so as to ensure the temperature match up to the tank water.

Should I continue with the daily water changes or just wait for the Nitrite to fall? Is there anything I can do to make Nitrite drop or should I just let it naturally covert itself to Nitrate?

Thanks!

What it looks to me is happening is that you are coming to the end of your cycling. The nitrates that actually went up after a water change bother me and I think you should test it one more time. First do a nitrate test on your tap water to see if there are any nitrates in it to begin with. Then test the tank water. Your nitrates should never be more than 20ppm above what your tap water read. Since my tap water reads 0 nitrates, then I should never have a reading above 20ppm, because that is when you start to reach toxic levels for your fish. I would continue to test all three every day and if necessary do daily water changes until your nitrate level comes down. I think you are on your way to the end of the cycling.

I did indeed add a couple fish at the end of my cycling. The reason being is that when you do a fishless cycle you do a massive water change (90%) to get rid of any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate residue and if you don't add fish right away your bacteria start to die off after 24 hours because they don't have anything to feed on (you don't add any more ammonia and there is no fish or food waste to eat). Since you already have fish you could wait a little while after your tank has stabilized and then add a few more fish. Always watch for a minicycle when you add more fish.

Glad I could be of some help. I am a newbie, but my fishless cycle worked like a dream. I will be adding a few more fish this week and then will continue testing until my tank has stabilized and my little family will be all set.

Debra

Thank you Debra! What fish do you already have in your tank and what size is your tank? What fish do you plan on getting this week? There are so many different species of tropical fish that I always learn new things about them!

I'm so glad that I'm nearing the end of the cycling phase (or so it seems!)

Yes, as mentioned above, the tap water is fine in terms of Nitrates, but the PH is a bit high and Ammonia also exists, albeit at 0.25....is this a cause for concern?

I wish I knew about fishless cycling before I even set up my aquarium as I believe the advantages of fishless cycling outweighs the benefits of cycling with fish.

I'll keep testing the water over the next few days and see if Nitrite finally drops. As long as Nitrite doesn't rise above what it currently is at (2.0), I'll be happy. Glad to hear your fishless cycle worked out so well! I think in a few weeks after you add more fish (and maybe more plants?), your tank will start getting into the mature stage! Good luck with the new fish!

 

[DebraAustin]

Thank you Debra! What fish do you already have in your tank and what size is your tank? What fish do you plan on getting this week? There are so many different species of tropical fish that I always learn new things about them!

I'm so glad that I'm nearing the end of the cycling phase (or so it seems!)

Yes, as mentioned above, the tap water is fine in terms of Nitrates, but the PH is a bit high and Ammonia also exists, albeit at 0.25....is this a cause for concern?

I wish I knew about fishless cycling before I even set up my aquarium as I believe the advantages of fishless cycling outweighs the benefits of cycling with fish.

I'll keep testing the water over the next few days and see if Nitrite finally drops. As long as Nitrite doesn't rise above what it currently is at (2.0), I'll be happy. Glad to hear your fishless cycle worked out so well! I think in a few weeks after you add more fish (and maybe more plants?), your tank will start getting into the mature stage! Good luck with the new fish!

I have two dwarf sunset platys and one julii cory. I just bought some white tetras, but believe it or not I've forgotten what they are called and I just got home from the lfs, egad! I'll have to check next week. They have pretty long flowing fins. I was going to get one more cory, but the store got in some incorrect fish that said they were julii, but they weren't. That will be it for my tank. I will be about 2" overstocked when they reach full size, but my cory is so lonely I can't leave him all by himself! I'll just have to be real diligent with water changes and monitoring my stats. My new fish looked pretty stressed when I put them in, but I checked my stats just before putting them in and everything was fine. Hope they make it. I've turned the light out so that they can relax and get used to the place. I hate the first night wait!

Debra