Buying Angels

[deucebrennan]

I want to put some Angels in my 40g community tank but I'm not sure how many i should get to keep them happy. In there so far are 8 cardinals, 5 Dannios, 5 plattys & 3 amano shrimp. I want a pair ideally that will breed. I dont want to end up with same sex ones cos some of the staff at my LFS are clueless. How do I tell? Should I get 3?
Help

 

[jagz]

It's never guaranteed, but very difficult when they are small!

Males tend to be bigger than females, tend to have thicker set bodies and also tend to have the traditional cichlid hump on their foreheads,or a bigger hump!! The males are also slimmer in the nether regions than the females.

Angels do well in almost any grouping, but if you get a lot then any aggression is spread.

HTH

jagz

 

[rabbut]

As Jagz says, sexing is difficult. Experienced breeders can give you an educated guess, but without seeing them spawn, you can only guess the gender. The two narrow fins going down from just in front of the vent will be the only method of guessing that I am formiliar with. These fins are slightly more curved on meale than on females.

With grouping, I'd either get a proven pair, one singely or a group of 6 or more.

HTH
Rabbut

 

[Miss Wiggle]

hi there, unfortunatley angels are pretty much impossible to sex until they breed at which point you can tell from the behaviour which is the male and which is the female. You can vent them to tell but this is an intrusive method and not recommended unless you really know what you're doing. Have to say I've never heard of either of the methods which the poster above me has given, do you have any evidence to back this up please?

what are the dimensions of the tank? 40gal tanks will generally be big enough for angels but they need a tall tank not just a certain amount of gallons, so please post the dimensions and we can then advise if the tank is suitable.

your best bet if you want them to breed is to get a group of about 4/6 and wait for a pair to form, however do some research into breeding angels first, while they will spawn fairly happily they do not often raise the young themselves and you need a large amount of grow on space to bring all the babies up. Not something to be undertake lightly.

here's some further info on breeding http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-Worl...g-and-Breeding/

 

[rabbut]

No miss Wiggle, I don't have any evidence to back it up, it's just a method that a breeder told me he used to sex his angels, and it appeared to be accurate for my old pair. There is no exact science to the sexing of angels that I am aware of, and the method above will only allow you to guess. The breeder did tell me that it is occasionaly inaccurete

 

[jagz]

same as above i have no evidence , i dont have any angels and never had , but a breeder i know who has breed his scalares gave me that advice . not definate until you see them breed just a few things to give you a bit of a guess.

jagz

 

[Tolak]

With the stock you have the shrimp will become fish food for larger angels, the cardinals may, a large angel will try.

The hump on the head, angle of ventrals, body shape, size, and behavior can all be taken into consideration when trying to determine sex. Before the age of 6-7 months, or about half dollar body size, it is nothing but guessing. In a tank of mature or near mature angels that are settled in you can approach 80% by a combination of all these things mentioned, but it is never 100% until you actually observe them spawning. 50% accuracy is plain guessing. Two females have been known to pair up in the absence of a male.

Talk to an independently owned shop, tell them you are trying to get a pair. With you current stocking, I would start with 6 juvies, with the shop understanding you will be returning some larger angels in the future when a pair forms. When angels pair on their own terms you tend to get a better bond.

Just putting any known male & female together does not guarantee a pair. Sometimes they pair with no effort, sometimes it takes some work on the part of the aquarist, sometimes they never hit it off.

 

[deucebrennan]

hi there, unfortunatley angels are pretty much impossible to sex until they breed at which point you can tell from the behaviour which is the male and which is the female. You can vent them to tell but this is an intrusive method and not recommended unless you really know what you're doing. Have to say I've never heard of either of the methods which the poster above me has given, do you have any evidence to back this up please?

what are the dimensions of the tank? 40gal tanks will generally be big enough for angels but they need a tall tank not just a certain amount of gallons, so please post the dimensions and we can then advise if the tank is suitable.

Im not too sure but its a Juwel Vision 180. (The bowfront) i guess its approx 3' x1' x1' Is this ok?

With the stock you have the shrimp will become fish food for larger angels, the cardinals may, a large angel will try.

Talk to an independently owned shop, tell them you are trying to get a pair. With you current stocking, I would start with 6 juvies, with the shop understanding you will be returning some larger angels in the future when a pair forms. When angels pair on their own terms you tend to get a better bond.

Just putting any known male & female together does not guarantee a pair. Sometimes they pair with no effort, sometimes it takes some work on the part of the aquarist, sometimes they never hit it off.

The juvies wont eat the shrimp or Tetras until they become adult? Is that correct? I really want a pair but not if they are going to eat my current stock
I could move them to another tank if they become too aggressive or even move any natural prey from that tank i guess.
I like the idea of getting 6 juvies and waiting for a couple to pair up but will my tank then be over stocked?

Thanks for the advice guys

 

[Miss Wiggle]

tanks needs to be minimum 16" tall so best check exact measurements.

if you get a group and let two pair off you can then re-home some/all of the rest so you're not overstocked.

 

[deucebrennan]

tanks needs to be minimum 16" tall so best check exact measurements.

if you get a group and let two pair off you can then re-home some/all of the rest so you're not overstocked.

Just checked & its 21.5'' tall. Cool im all set.

Thanks
Chris