Breeding Rams

[Zante]

Ok, ok, I know it's not what you'd call the most difficult task, but it's my first attempt at breeding anything (other than daphnia as live food that is!), so I thought I'd open a journal, both for personal satisfaction and so that I can avoid mistakes following the advice of anyone willing to give it.

... and who knows, baybe it'll be useful to another newbie like me.

The rams have gone in the tank today, four hours ago to be precise.

The tank is a fluval Roma 90, with the lighting upgraded to 4 T5 tubes for a total of 96w.

Fine black gravel holds two amazon swords and a patch of vallisneria. A piece of bogwood has a thick java fern. A larger piece of bogwood is forming a lintel over two pieces of red jasper.

The filter has been upgraded from a fluval U2 (internal) to a Hydor something 10 external (nominal flow 300l/h).

Temperature is kept at 29 Celsius by 2x100w heaters, one at each end of the tank.

Currently the water is 50/50 RO and tap water, for an approximate hardness of 7gh. I will start bringing that down slowly with the water changes to a proportion of 80/20 where 20 is the tap water.

There is CO2 injection with a DIY yeast bottle.

Tank mates:
12 espei rasboras
12 kuhli loaches
3 snails

I have added the rams to the tanks four hours ago. One of the males is older and bigger, and obviously dominant.
I have called him Fred, and his mate Wilma. The other male, smaller and submissive I have called Barney and his mate Betty.

In my big community tank Fred and Wilma had formed a stable pair, while Barney and Betty were still bonding, but we're obviously pairing up. Both males are mature, but both females are still a bit young. According to the chiclids expert at the LFS (and he is trustworthy, I have had plenty of very good advice from him) it will be a good two or three months before they are ready to spawn. Plenty of time to settle in.

Since I've put them in the breeding tank the Fred/Wilma pair has re-formed, but Barney seems not to be able to get Betty's attention as she confronts Wilma and stalks Fred. They are flaring and lunging at each other as I type. Maybe Betty will pair up with Barney after all, there's plenty of time for that, and anyway one pair is enough, so if they don't pair up, they can go back in the community tank.

As I'm looking at the tank, Fred and Wilma are brightly coloured up, Barney is nicely coloured, but with pale black markings (submissiveness I guess) and Betty is as bright as Wilma is.

I fed them two hours after being added into the tank and they ate greedily as usual and just before sitting down to write this post I put a fingertip in the water (that's how I call them) and all four came up and swam around my fingers. They're so tame I could literally pick them out of the water!

 

[Zante]

They have settled in.

Fred is still keeping Barney at bay. He seems interested in having a harem, and for the moment Wilma and Betty don't seem to mind.

Barney is still desperately trying to hook up with either of the females, and the only one paying any attention is Betty.

I guess the girls are still too young to bond properly with either male, though Wilma is slightly older than Betty, and does seem to prefer Fred. That leads me to think that their bonding in the big tank was not just my impression, and the bond is quickly rebuilding after the move.

Anyway, we'll see...

 

[Zante]

Fred is actively keeping Barney in a corner, then chasing him out of the corner.

I am considering returning Barney to the community tank: Fred is seriously aggressive and actively chasing down Barney every time he sees him, and looking for him when he doesn't. He will swim literally from one end to the other of the tank to chase him. Is that normal or have I got a jerk?

Fred is also chasing both females and neither seems to mind too much (there is some moderate nipping though).
Would a male ram breed with more than one female or are they strictly monogamous?

 

[Zante]

I have just separated Barney and Betty in a breeding net.

I first put only Barney in and Fred calmend down right away, and started calmly swimming with Wilma. At this point Betty and Wilma started flaring at each other and pecking at each other.

Once Betty was put in the breeding net Barney coloured up right away and started flaring and courting her.

Fred has started noticing Barney through the net occasionally swims up, flares at him and tries to peck at him through the net. Barney is responding by flaring up and responding, and generally standing his ground.

At this point I need to decide whether to take barney and Wilma back to the community tank of give them another chance in the breeding tank after a brief spell in the net, especially considering that Barney is now responding to Fred's aggressiveness (he might go back to being a coward once he's in harm's way again).

I'll see what is going on tomorrow morning, in the meantime the lights have been reduced to 48w (half).

 

[Zante]

BArney and Betty have gone back in the community tank yesterday. Even keeping separated they were going at each other with no pause, so I chose the pair with the older female (albeit just slightly older) and took the others back.

Now in the breeding tank everything is peaceful.

They are behaving as I think a pair of cichlids should, never very far from each other.

The female occasionally goes and play with the stream of co2 bubbles from the diffuser.

They seem to have a particular interest this evening for a depression in the "lintel" piece of bogwood, a kind of shallow bowl in the middle of the bogwood, but nothing that will lead me to think of imminent spawning.

Today the first water change since they were set up in the tank. 25 litres of water at 25ppm tds is warming up. The tank water is at approximately 400ppm tds. This water change should take that reading down to approximately 300ppm. I will keep up with the weekly water changes until I reach approximately 100ppm, at which point I will maintain that value.

 

[Zante]

Water hardness dropped, ph dropped and they're spending a lot of time on the "bowl" on the bogwood. Maybe spawning is not so far away.

I will change the water again on Monday evening, another drop in hardness and ph should be the last push. I have also added some peat in the filter.

 

[Zante]

The peat has coloured the water, so I can't quite see how pink Wilma's belly is, but it is very much swollen.

Either there's going to be a spawning soon, or she'll split into two fish! either way I'll have rams reproducing even if it's mitosis

Anyway, on a more serious note, we'll soon see a spawning or the eggs will be re-absorbed and I'll know that something is wrong. Can't imagine what that could be though, except maybe Wilma's age, she is still quite small.

... anyway, we'll see.

 

[Nutbeam]

i'm watching....

have you adjusted the tank temp at all?

 

[Zante]

When I dropped them in it was at 26 Celsius. I added another 100w heater and took it up to 29 Celsius over a couple of days. Yesterday I dropped the temperature by one or two degrees with a 25% water change with pure RO water, so hardness dropped a bit too.

 

[Zante]

There is some serious aggression going on against the rasboras, especially from Wilma, but they aren't defending a particular area, also she seems more active in general, almost frantic. She is also very bossy with Fred.

I wonder if spawning is close...

 

[Zante]

Spawn!

They have laid lots of eggs on a java fern leaf and now they are being guarded.

I don't expect this lot to go well, even if fred is fairly old it the first spawn for both of them, but, who knows, fingers crossed.

 

[Zante]

Eggs are still white, so Fred hasn't done his job.

No surprise there really, as I said it is their first spawn, but now I know I have a pair and anway I knew the first few spawns don't work out. I don't think the eggs will be there tomorrow morning.

Wilma is still ferociously defending them though...

It is actually a relief. I'm going on holiday for a week in two week's time, and I was dreading leaving fry behind

 

[Zante]

Really strange...

The eggs are still there this morning, untouched, but also unguarded. The rams were both hiding under the piece of wood with with the java fern holding the eggs, very unreactive and meek, they didn't even bother coming up for the morning food.

We'll see what they're like this evening...

 

[Zante]

The parents have lost interest in the eggs, which are still white but not yet mouldy, but the thing that surprised me is that they are still there. The rams are not defending them and neither the rasboras to the kuhlis have touched them in the whole day.

Is that normal?

 

[Zante]

Ok, a lot fewer eggs there, I'm guessing eaten, but those that are there have turned gray, and the parents are back to defending them.

I don't know what to think, I guess it's wait and see, but if they are to hatch (I doubt it) we're getting close now. We'll see...