Bolivian Or German Blue Ram?

[FishLover66]

I'm planning on purchasing my focus fish and can't decide whether I want a pair of Bolivians or one or two pairs of GBRs. I've been having a VERY hard time finding female Bolivians, but I do know they are hardier and not as fussy as the GBRs with water parameters. Petsmart keeps getting shipments of baby GBRs with a good mix of boys and girls--very easy to tell, since the girls have that pinkish belly--they are ADORABLE! However, I know they need higher temps and are pickier and less hardy.

My pH typically runs 6.4-6.6 and I have soft water. Right now, my tank temp is 78 deg F. If I raise the temp to 79 or 80, do you think they would be happy/healthy and still not affect my other fish?

Also, because the GBRs are smaller, I might be able to fit two pairs instead of just one of the Bolivians.

Help me decide!

 

[onidrase]

What are your other fish? Gbrs typically like it at 82 or higher. IMO 80 is still too low.

 

[FishLover66]

My current stock is in my signature. I think 82 might be too high for the neons and cories though. If they would be happier in 82+ temp, than I'm probably better off sticking with the Bolivians.

 

[JohnDyer]

If you were to trade the Neons for Cardinals, you could raise the temperature to 82 without a problem. Marbled Hatchets and Sterbai Cories are conveniently tolerant of higher temperatures.

 

[Dazzler666]

I have a pair if GBR in my tank with a PH of 7.2 and temp is 28 degrees for the last 6 weeks and touch wood they doing great!! .
Do find them very bossy though as they are torturing my
New T-bar which is substantially bigger than my pair of GBR's. Also, i initially bought these with a pair of bolivians but the GBR's bullied these so i have moved them.
I know people say GBR's should be kept in acidic water (PH of around 6 to 6.5) but depending what you read on tinternet it also states they do fine in PH upto 7 and as stated, so far so good with mine but suppose only time will tell ..... Fingers crossed!

 

[onidrase]

I have a pair if GBR in my tank with a PH of 7.2 and temp is 28 degrees for the last 6 weeks and touch wood they doing great!! .
Do find them very bossy though as they are torturing my
New T-bar which is substantially bigger than my pair of GBR's. Also, i initially bought these with a pair of bolivians but the GBR's bullied these so i have moved them.
I know people say GBR's should be kept in acidic water (PH of around 6 to 6.5) but depending what you read on tinternet it also states they do fine in PH upto 7 and as stated, so far so good with mine but suppose only time will tell ..... Fingers crossed!

its long term that lower temps and high ph damage the fish. Typically their life spans will be cut in half from it. You're not gonna notice it from a mere 6 weeks of ownership

 

[Dazzler666]

Try to resemble the natural environment of the German blue ram in the aquarium, e.g. by using soft acidic water with a pH-value of 5. In the wild, the German blue ram is used to a water temperature of 25.5-29.5 ºC (78-85 ºF). Aquarium kept specimens will normally do fine up to 80 °F (27 °C) and they can usually adapt to a pH-value from 5.0 to 7.0. Some aquarists have even managed to keep German blue rams in moderately hard water. If you find it hard to keep the water in your aquarium acidic, add peat moss .... Copied from Aquaticcommunity.com.
This is just one site but there are many others that reflect the same or very similar suggestions for GBR care. I suppose a fairly large factor is wether they are wild caught or tank bred.
Its speculative to say that it is the long term that is affected IMO as this really can not be proven as they are sooooooo many factors which can effect fish, not just temp, PH, etc.
In addition, how many people have all fish in community tanks in their IDEAL individual conditions/habitat?!!!
Hey, suppose its just each to their own ......

 

[onidrase]

Its speculative to say that it is the long term that is affected IMO as this really can not be proven as they are sooooooo many factors which can effect fish, not just temp, PH, etc.
In addition, how many people have all fish in community tanks in their IDEAL individual conditions/habitat?!!!
Hey, suppose its just each to their own ......

Its also speculative to say that all tropical fish are adaptable to a wide array of water parameters. some fish can live outside of their wild parameters better than others without side effect. 78-80 degrees is awful low for gbrs. Similar to how many guides say you can keep many to types of tetras in 72 or so degrees. They just fail to mention the long term side effects. Nobody actually keeps then in the minimum. People avoid extremes. They don't keep Amazon fish in 8.4 ph liquid gravel water, because it kills them long term. 7.0+ is considered an extreme for gbrs. 78 degrees is considered an extreme for gbrs. It doesn't make it an extreme for every fish out there.

 

[Dazzler666]

Well clearly onidrase you are far more knowledgable than the sources on the internet!!
Im not even going to respond as i really have no idea what you have waffled on about. Im not talking about other tropical fish or amazonian sword fish ....... .
FishLover66 ...... Amongst this confusion all i can suggest is research the fish you are interested in and compare them against one another and your water parameters then go from there!!

 

[onidrase]

Well clearly onidrase you are far more knowledgable than the sources on the internet!!
Im not even going to respond as i really have no idea what you have waffled on about. Im not talking about other tropical fish or amazonian sword fish ....... .
FishLover66 ...... Amongst this confusion all i can suggest is research the fish you are interested in and compare them against one another and your water parameters then go from there!!

I was using other softer, warmer watered species of fish comparatively to show that websites often give a rather extreme temperature range in what fish could be kept in. I do a lot of research on the net too, and often times the temperature range shows what they can live in without their blood boiling or going lethargic, but it doesn't show what it should be kept in to maintain proper health.

I can't say I'd trust a number of websites online that say you can keep a gbr at 78 degrees in somewhat harder water when threads all over the net of sick german blues and dying german blues and lethargic german blues pop up on a regular basis and the main factor in these threads the improper water quality.

 

[FishLover66]

Thanks for the info. I actually decided to go with the Bolivians--especially since I found some females at a local Petsmart--they are SO hard to find. I'm going to post some pictures in another thread because I just want to be sure I have two females--they are getting along very well, which I didn't expect, so I might have a pair. ?

 

[Blitz]

It's fine to have a pair, I believe.

 

[onidrase]

Bolivians always seem to get along, unlike german blues. I see mine butt heads now and then, and I saw them lock lips once, just before actually pairing off. Never had big aggression issues between them, not even a ripped fin. Another reason why they're cooler than GBRs, they don't kill each other.

 

[Gvilleguy]

Based on your water stats and community fish, I believe you made the correct decision in picking Bolivians. The other part I did not see discussed was how mature your tank is. Bolivians are going to tolerate fluctuations in tank stats (which happen more frequently with tanks < 12 months cycled, from what I've seen) much better than GBRs.

 

[FishLover66]

My display tank is 8 months old. That was another concern of mine. Between their temperature requirements and fussiness with water parameters, I was concerned that they just wouldn't be happy. I'm VERY happy with my choice. The Bolivians are SO darn cute and I know they will color up. I'm pretty sure I have two girls and will be picking up a male soon. I'm hoping that the male will pick one of the girls to pair with and I won't have to search for more girls--they really are very hard to find around here.