blue ram behaviour

[snowyangel]

Hey guys, I just purchased 4 blue rams( 2 of each sex) about 4 days ago. I'm pretty sure two have already paired up wonderfully. Anyways my ques is they were by "their area" and were shoveling the sand with their bodies and mouths together and would chase any other fish a good distance away if they came by this area. Are they just rearranging their home to their liking, preparing for breeding, searching for food or whatelse? They're still juvies b/c they're alittle over 2.5 inches.
FYU, in the 55gallon long there is also 2 gold rams(not a pair, but was told they were), 8 keyholes, 5 pygmy cories, and 3 unidentified big cories .
Thanks in advance

 

[parker313]

They're still juvies b/c they're alittle over 2.5 inches.

They don't get much bigger than that, if any, so they probably are full grown. Yes, the making a pit does sound like they could be preparing for breeding.

 

[Black_Chameleon]

For sure, we just saw them laying eggs on a big leaf, a whole load of em, I loves my rams...loves em.
(FYI, I'm Snowy's BF if you didn't know...)

 

[snowyangel]

Wooo hoo, my rams are laying eggs! They sure got cozy real fast i must say! Feels good to become a grany of somethign besides a guppy, lol.

 

[parker313]

Congratulations to both of you! That's so cool! You'll have to keep this thread updated with how it goes!!

 

[AmberC]

Wooo hoo, my rams are laying eggs! They sure got cozy real fast i must say! Feels good to become a grany of somethign besides a guppy, lol.

Dont get too excited yet. This is probably their first spawn. With rams it normally takes a while before they 'get it right'. It took mine 3 months before they actually hatched.. then theres keeping them alive. What else do you have in the tank. Its best to keep them by themselves if you want the babies cause other fish will eat them. Ram babies are TINY TINY TINY!!! You'll also want to put a cover over your filter.. I used the nylon (a fine nylon) from a fry net and used a rubber band to hold it on. Rams are WONDERFUL parents so just let them do it. I have also found that my eggs will not hatch unless my pH is lower than 6.4. You'll want to make sure to have food for them too. I use Hikari first bites and i hatch bbs for them too. Java fern is a good plant to have cause they babies can feed off micro-organisms in it.

Good luck with your spawnings!!!! And congrats on the eggs! I know its exciting.. just dont get your hopes up too high like I did.... Doesn't always work the first time around

 

[snowyangel]

Thanks for the heads up amber. I just checked on them and they're still laying and fertilizes more eggs. It' so beautiful to see it in action so i took pics and filmed some of it hoping to post it later on here.
Getting the ph to 6.4 maybe tricky, mines at 7.4 . I thought i shouldn't change anything(besides doing reg water changes) b/c i figured they liked the water so much to breed in it, no? I wrote down what fish are with the rams in my first post. When u say keep them by themselves u mean the parents and the fry (b/c the fry live off their mucus) right? How long does it take for the eggs to hatch?Well I have a spare 5 gallon, but thats it. Right now the parents are guarding off half of the 55 gallon long tank, so their tons of room if the 5 gallon is too small. How fast do the fry grow? how long do they live off the parents?
Will other rams eat another rams fry even though they wouldn't eat their own? or will they respect the fry as they would their own?
Sorry for the amount of ques )

 

[ramesses]

Congrats! ....Give them another day or so,and you will start noticing the babies little tails.Another two,three days and they will be free swimming.The progress of the babies depend on temp.and H2O conditions.
Parents will take very good care of the babies.They won't eat right away,but have some baby food available such as baby brine shrimp,live or frozen.they also sale liquid baby food and many other types of food.
What someone else was saying is true 'bout keeping them by themselves.The parents will take better care of the babies if they are by themselves,a 20gallons will do perfectly.
To answer one of your questions...yes the other rams will eat the fry,and so will the rest of the fish in your tank,eventhough the parents will kill to protect their offsprings.
You don't need to make any water changes,doing so,could result in the death of the youngsters.Most rams don't come from the wild,therefore most will adapt to various ph levels and other parameters,BUT.......that doesnt mean they are totally happy.They might look it,but like someone else was saying it's not their ideal water conditions.


I wish you the best of luck.Let us know how they're doing.

 

[AmberC]

Thanks for the heads up amber. I just checked on them and they're still laying and fertilizes more eggs. It' so beautiful to see it in action so i took pics and filmed some of it hoping to post it later on here.
Getting the ph to 6.4 maybe tricky, mines at 7.4 . I thought i shouldn't change anything(besides doing reg water changes) b/c i figured they liked the water so much to breed in it, no? I wrote down what fish are with the rams in my first post. When u say keep them by themselves u mean the parents and the fry (b/c the fry live off their mucus) right? How long does it take for the eggs to hatch?Well I have a spare 5 gallon, but thats it. Right now the parents are guarding off half of the 55 gallon long tank, so their tons of room if the 5 gallon is too small. How fast do the fry grow? how long do they live off the parents?
Will other rams eat another rams fry even though they wouldn't eat their own? or will they respect the fry as they would their own?
Sorry for the amount of ques )

Your welcome. To answer your questions: Rams are the easiest fish to 'get' to spawn. They spawn regularly. Mine spawn every 6 days (after they eat the eggs.) Without the right water parameters your eggs WILL grow fungus and the parents will eat them. For three months mine would lay eggs. The first night they'd be fine.. the second night, the parents would eat every last egg cause they grew fungus (the eggs will turn white) Then 6 days later, they laid another clutch. This went on for THREE MONTHS. Then I took a clutch put it in a 20 and treated with maroxy. They hatched within 24 hours. (They can take 24 hours or 3 days to hatch.) THEN the parents spawned again. I had gotten my pH down to 6.4 and all the babies hatched in the community tank 24 hours later when this has never happened before. The first couple days were fine, parents kept everything else away. But mind you they lay about 200 eggs. Thats a lot of babies. The babies became free swimming within about 3 days and they started to venture ALL over the tank. This was a LOT for the parents as they rushed around gathering up babies in their mouths and spitting them back in their 'pit' for about two days. This really wore out the parents and stressed them. Not good for them. There was nothing I could do to help. Like I said before. The babies are TINY. They go right thru a net. You cant scoop them up. So there was no way I could remove them. They all got eaten. I've since let my pH come back up and they've spawned many times since then but it doesn't hatch cause the pH is too high. My pH is naturally about 7.6 or so. Its high. I use Acid buffer to bring it down and keep it down. Its really strong stuff and works well and I've never had a problem with it. A lot of people say let them adapt and dont mess with pH cause thats more stressfull for them, but my eggs wont hatch at such a high pH. I've never had a prob with messing with the pH. My fish are all extremely happy because they are in the conditions they prefer. I'm not trying to disagree with anyone else, but this is the way I do it. Here is a website that I used frequently when I was starting out with my rams. Its got a LOT of good information on them.
blue rams

I missed a couple of your questions. No the fry do not 'live off the parents mucus' thats discus. The babies the first couple days live off their own yolk sac and micro organisms in live plants in your tank. My rams dig their pit into the roots of my spiralis each time and put the babies in there. You said you only have a 5 gallon. Thats too small. I dont think these eggs will hatch (if they do thats awesome.. but it doesn't normally happen first time around..not much you can do about that.) so you have some time. A 20 gal would be optimal, but two rams can do fine and breed in a 10. They also prefer sand to rocks. (Plus sand looks better IMO ) The other ram pair will eat the fry. Um.. I think I got all your questions right? You can click on my webpage and go to the fish photo album to see a few pictures of my ram fry.

 

[ramesses]

Hi Amber,since you also seem to know a lot about rams,let me ask you a few questions......You see,when I first brought my pair of rams I had gravel and they used these flat rocks to lay their eggs on.Eventually I'd end up losing a lot of the fry because they would get stock between the rocks and get eaten,so I did remove the gravel and introduced black sand.
Now,I also removed the flat rocks for they didn't look good with the dark sand.I have some driftwood I didn't have before so,I thought they would lay their eggs on its flat surface or on the sand,but neither.They decided to go angels-discus like,and lay their eggs on an almost perpendicular surface of this driftwood.I mean,when the female was laying the eggs the head was facing the surface and the tail facing the sand at the bottom and her tummy rubbing against the wood,pretty much like discus laying eggs on a glass.Have you ever seen this?I did find it kinda odd.
You said it well when you mention the right conditions.I don't have an alkaline ph,mine is a bit on the acidic side which is ideal for the rams,but I would like to mention that before people start using chemicals to lower ph is better to read well those instructions.And Amber this is not a criticism,'cause obviously you know how to use it,but I have heard of people killing fish for not following the instructions correctly.I would say to somebody who's fairly new to fish keeping to stay away from this buffers/chemicals.For instance if you have live plants and you introduce some of these agents,they might kill some of the greens or affect some of your beneficial bacterias and other fish.
What I would say to most people is,go to your LFS and ask what kind of fish could you keep without having to alter the H2O parameters too much.And if you happen to buy blue rams,try to condition the water before you purchase them,your fish will thank you by making you a grandparent every six days.

 

[AmberC]

Ramesses,
No I have never seen them lay the eggs on a surface that was straight up and down. I have seen my pair cleaning off a rock on the side that was straight up and down like that, but they never laid there. My guess is that out of all the spots you have for them they like that the best. If you dont want them to spawn there you could remove that and they will choose another spot. That was probably pretty interesting to watch tho!

The first spawning I got was right on the rocks (before I got sand) but those never hatched. I had that fear though that I would loose babies in the rocks so I hurried and got the sand. I have a piece of driftwood(fake) in my tank and thats where mine always spawn, but when I take that out they go for the top of the terracotta pot (which are on their sides.) I've never had them lay right in the sand tho.

And as for the stuff about the buffer. I started using that when I was a beginner myself (at the advice of a lfs associate... and shes really good too). I have live plants and have never had a problem. I thought it was a given that they'd read the instructions... I guess you've known people to not do that though? The acid buffer is a really good product and I still recommend it, but I will add that you do need to read instructions and be careful when using it as with any product going in your tank. I wasn't trying to step on any toes.. just telling what I do. That was the whole reason I even said anything about the acid buffer. I wouldn't recommend something I thought was too strong for a beginner to use.

 

[ramesses]

That's what I thought.I had never seen a pair of rams lay on a straight up surface either until that only time.I really don't care were they lay their eggs,its just that I tought it was funny.
And about laying on the sand,well mine have done it only once which was sort of weird since I had never seen them do that before or ever since.
And 'bout the buffer....belive me I killed some fish when I first started many years ago,and I heart things happening to some guys using this product.But,it had nothing to do with the product itself,more like acting like a "real" guy and never reading the instructions.

 

[AmberC]

yeah .. women and men do things just a little differently dont they You guys make things so much more difficult than they have to be!!!! (My husband is one of these types of men .. shhhh I didn't say that!!