Betta With Fin Rot, Not Responding To Treatment..

[doggiebag]

HI Guys...

I have been an avid reader for a few days here, trying to solve my problem alone and from previous advice, but now need some help and guidance, so here I am.

I bought a Betta from my LFS and he is in a 25litre tank, alone. It is heated to 80f, though rising to 82f in UK heatwave, filtered by an internal filter. It is a new tank so was not cycled.......I know, bad advice from LFS, now I have researched on here I have found this is bad. It has a terracotta pot in there, small soft silicone fake ferns. I live in a very hard water area, tank tests at around the 8.0-8.2 mark.

I have an API liquid test kit. Water is declorinated using Seachem Prime.

The day after I got the fish I noticed a darkened oval patch in the centre of his tail, very small, it must have been there when I bought him but just didn't notice it as he was so actively moving in the LFS tank, he was kept in a tank with other fish (sorry didn't notice what I was only looking at bettas) another betta was in the next tank and they were constantly flaring and swimming up and down the divide..... It was day 2, the day after noticing the dark patch that things really progressed.

It started with tiny pin holes on the tips of his dorsal, caudal and anal fins, within a day those pin holes were larger holes, it looked like his tail was melting.......so I immediately started a course of myxazin and added salt to the water as well.
I called Waterlife after a few days as it did not seem to make much difference. I was told to continue treatment up to 14 days, until I could see definite regrowth. As they tank was uncycled I could water change every few days and remed for that days dose, adding salt too. he said the meds disperse over 24 hours so no need to add previous dose to wc, just that days meds. SO I have followed this advice.......

5 days in to treatment the rot had slowed down, the dorsal and anal fins seemed fine but the tail, although slowed had black edges to where the rot was. So I decided to continue for another 5 days, I am now on day 3 of second course (or day 8 of full round). I had to do a full 100% waterchange as for some reason nitrites were at 1.0 !! HIs last wc was 2 days ago..... Not sure what is happening there either.

Ammonia readings for the past week were 0, then rose over 2 days to 0.25 then dropped to todays reading of 0. Nitrites went from 0 to todays reading of 1.0, it looks like its cycling but it can't be as its only been set up for over a week!! SO have no idea what is causing ammonia to drop and nitrites to rise daily. I have tested tap water and that tests with trace ammonia and no nitrites, 10 nitrates. Cycling can't possibly happen this quickly, can it? Seems odd to go so fast but can't work out what else could be happening.

Anyway, from today I will do daily 50% wc and remed each day for another 2 days, then he has had 2 x 5 day courses.
Today I have noticed the black tail edge is still there, very slowly rotting the tail by a mm a day, very slowed down to before but still worrying that its still there at all byt this stage of meds. The dorsal and anal which looked fine yesterday, today look like there is one pinhole and teeny tiny black edges to tips of rays.

I am really starting to worry that this isn't going to stop. The myxazin can't be working anymore. I intended to continue 2 more days to complete round 2, but what should I do next? Continue to round 3 finishing a 14 days course?

I do have a few meds bought as a precaution, very pleased I did now as I was able to med him as soon as I knew what it was. Here is what I have....
Interpet 9 Internal bac med,
Waterlife Sterazin,
Waterlife Protozin,
melafix (loathe to use this on betta)
and API salt.

Not sure whether to buy Interpet fin rot treatment, is this any different to the myxazin? Not sure whether to buy it next or if the ingredients are the same?
Any suggestions as what to do given the above information? I really don't want to see him die from this.

The betta himself looks happy, he swims well, very active, eating well, stomach nice and slim, not bloated. He is building bubble nests every night, so he doesn't seem too fussed about anything, but still I want to see this rot go and am worried this myxazin may not be working......

I would greatly welcome any advice about this, he is currently happy and has only lost about 0.5cm of tail and only the very tips of anal/dorsal. But it just worries me having the black edge remaining and then a tiny pinhole in dorsal today.



Edited to add photos of progress.....day 2 pic shows the dark patch in middle of tail and tiny black dots to ends of tail, now I can see these were the start.

day 2, note the dark patch centre of tail and dots to lower part, the dark patch in middle of tail now is not there, instead the tail looks thinner there but not darkness

day 4

day 5

day 10 (today)

yellow circle shows black shrivelled ends on tail, now slow moving, green circle shows new loss on anal fin with black dots/edges......

day 2-5 were the fastest loss of tail, it has now slowed dramatically in its progress but the black only appeared around day 5-6, the black parts look shrivelled......not lost as fast since day 5 but not going either, plus the anal fin has now lost a tiny piece, where the pin holes had filled back in a few days back.....

 

[WILDER]

Black patches and black edging is ammonia burns that are healing.
The bad water quallity won't be helping either, as finrot mainly caused by bad water quality.

Run some black carbon to remove the myxazin and do a water change.
Add anti internal bacteria med by interpet.
Also soak his food in garlic juice to boost his immune system.

 

[doggiebag]

Hi Wilder, thanks for your reply

The ammonia readings here never got above 0.25 without a water change and the edges were not like they are now when I got him, could 0.25 have caused that? I wasn't sure if it was that, rot or dead tissue as it looks shrivelled, but the dark patch in centre of tail was there on arrival.

I am on day 8 of myxazin today, the bottle says 5 day course but waterlife rep said if I was doing wc daily to med for 10-14 without break.

Do you recommend stopping now, or after another 2 days.....

I have carbon here too so can do a water change run carbon for a few days then remed with interpet internal bac med, just not sure when to do these things. Someone else recommended sticking with myxazin for the rest of the course then a rest week before changing to interpet fin rot, so bit confused as to what is best......

 

[WILDER]

Finish the myxazin then.

Ammonia reading of 0.25 can soon damage fins.
Do you know any fish keepers who live near you who could donate you a mature sponge.

The anti finrot med by interpet is not very good.
If you do decide to change meds try the anti internal bacteria med by interpet.

http/www.petfish.net/kb/entry/335/

 

[doggiebag]

Finish the myxazin then.

Ammonia reading of 0.25 can soon damage fins.
Do you know any fish keepers who live near you who could donate you a mature sponge.

The anti finrot med by interpet is not very good.
If you do decide to change meds try the anti internal bacteria med by interpet.

[URL="http/www.petfish.net/kb/entry/335/"]http/www.petfish.net/kb/entry/335/[/URL]

Thanks Wilder, I dont know anyone with a tank round here, shame really, would have saved him some stress. I will do daily changes now anyway.

I can add charcoal now and wc tomorrow, should I wait 2 days before changing meds as it says this on myxazin bottle, or will the wc/charcoal be enough. Also, the internal bacs med is added of day 1 and 4, so is it okay to do wc daily in between or not? Worried about diluting meds but also worried about leaving water. Should I continue with salt with the internal bac meds or leave that part till complete?

 

[WILDER]

Finish the myxazin then.

Ammonia reading of 0.25 can soon damage fins.
Do you know any fish keepers who live near you who could donate you a mature sponge.

The anti finrot med by interpet is not very good.
If you do decide to change meds try the anti internal bacteria med by interpet.

<a href="http/www.petfish.net/kb/entry/335/" target="_blank">http/www.petfish.net/kb/entry/335/</a>

Thanks Wilder, I dont know anyone with a tank round here, shame really, would have saved him some stress. I will do daily changes now anyway.

I can add charcoal now and wc tomorrow, should I wait 2 days before changing meds as it says this on myxazin bottle, or will the wc/charcoal be enough. Also, the internal bacs med is added of day 1 and 4, so is it okay to do wc daily in between or not? Worried about diluting meds but also worried about leaving water. Should I continue with salt with the internal bac meds or leave that part till complete?

Its up to you, but if there not much improvement I doubt 2 more days are going to make much difference.
If you have to preform a water change you just add the correct amount of med back to water removed.
You can start doing water changes now and run some black carbon and start the anti internal bacteria med by interpet. or carry on with the myxazin.

 

[doggiebag]

thank you Wilder. There has been improvement, it was just he black edges I was concerned about as it was not there till day 5-6, but guess that was my fault with ammonia and wc. Sorry for all the questions, I just want to be sure I help the little guy and not make him any worse with my amateur blundering.

 

[doggiebag]

ROFL, okay, I don't think the garlic juice thing will work. I just tried him and he kept taking the pellet and spitting it back out, he never spits anything out, too much of a pig LOL.....he tried the pellet about 10 times then let it drop to the floor refusing it. Now I just have really stinky fingers from the juice

 

[WILDER]

Keep trying with the garlic.
Just remove the uneaten food.

Black Patches



Symptoms:

Black patches, smudges, smears, spots or markings that suddenly appear and are not natural colorings.



Cause:

These markings are the result of skin cell damage. Black markings often appear in areas where the skin has been damaged by ammonia burns, bacterial infections, parasitic infestations, and injuries. These markings are often seen on fish just after a new tank has completed “cycling,” due to the high ammonia levels. These marks are also common in African Cichlids, especially around the mouth. These are scabs that have come from digging in the gravel or from fighting.



Treatment:

No treatment is necessary. Much like scabs, the blackened areas are a sign that the healing process has already begun. Keep water in top condition and the areas will gradually fade in less than a couple of weeks.

 

[doggiebag]

Thanks for that info, the black ends have reduced today, just on very edges now.

Am doing daily 50% water changes and finishing last 2 days of myxazin, then will add carbon and continue with daily water changes/salt to see how he goes, as it does seem to have slowed its progress. If the rot starts to creep up the tail again then I will start the interpet internal bac meds as you recommended.

Thanks again for all your help, I will update in a few days to see how he is getting on.

 

[WILDER]

Good Luck.

 

[Anna Robinson]

melafix (loathe to use this on betta)

You can use Melafix with Bettas. It was, naturally, tested on Bettas during its research and development and it does not cause any problems.

However, things seem to be improving for you now anyway. Unfortunately bacterial infections like this one are quite common in Bettas.

 

[doggiebag]

just a quick update..............

After doing 10 days of myxazin, I then went on to do 50% water changes daily adding salt for the first week. Im pleased to say the fin rot has stopped and there is some good clear regrowth on his tail now. However there is still some tiny black edges on the tail, but it can't be rot still as its on the tip of the regrowth.........anyway, pics attached of the progress so you can see the difference. Im still doing daily 50% changes.

as it was on day 5

around about day 9 when the black edges appeared.

new growth on day 20

and today day 25

Im hoping it looks good.......

 

[WILDER]

What are your water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.

 

[doggiebag]

well I am trying to cycle a new tank, but it has all gone pair-shaped with all the meds....

I have been doing daily 50% to keep his water as safe as possible while healing, sometimes two 50% changes.

Betta tank 25 litre one male betta (in pics)
temp 80f, been set-up for about 3 weeks now, but first 10 days was being medicated so may have affected cycle so aded new filter after meds and started over, into about day 15 with new filter but the nitrite issue same as before.
ph 8.0
ammonia never gets much above 0 with all the water changes, never got as high as 0.25
Nitrites start at 0 then rise to 0.25 then jump on about day 4 to 1.0!! no idea why, this is with the 50% daily changes. When it jumps to 1.0 I do a 90% change.
Nitrates static at 20

tap water has trace ammonia, 0 nitrites, nitrate 10, seems to stabilize to 20 in tanks.

I have no idea what is causing nitrite to rise over 4 days with 50% daily wc......I never really see any ammonia other than maybe a trace.............



I am currently cycling three tanks (LFS advise, yeah I know I trusted them before I found here) bought one tank, told to add water wait a week then get my fish, I then picked up my second tank for betta when I went back week later, then found this site DOH!, third tank came about as was given apple snails but was scared they would raise ammonia too much in my 2 uncycled tanks so put them in a spare tank I had as I felt I could safeguard all fish/snails better this way, really hard work though!. All three tanks are cycling differently and its driving me nuts !


Coldwater tank (first tank) 25 litre 6 wcmm
daily waterchanges of between 20%-60% depending on readings
on day 48 with no real improvement to ammonia, though did forget to turn my filter back on after waterchange around day 28 and it was off for 5 hours !!! So I am guessing all bacteria died and im starting over.....
ph 8.0
ammonia currently spiking at 0.50
nitrites they were there at around 0.25 then vanished to 0 after filter incident
nitrates 20, did rise to 50 at one point but stayed static at 20 since filter off incident


Snail tank 21 litre 2 apple snails
only been going 9 days
ph 8.0
ammonia spiking at 0.25, then 0.50, then between 0.50 and 1.0
nitrites 0, then rising to 0.25 today
nitrates 20
doing daily 60% waterchanges.


I removed the carbon from the wcmm and betta tanks 2 days ago and added filter wool in the space to help bacteria growth, plus didn't want carbon saturating and putting stuff back in so thought filter wool would be better.

As you can see, can't be the water as all 3 tanks are cycling differently, driving me mad, especially the betta tank as it is not following a cycle I can see, no ammonia but trace nitrites from 24 hours in with frequent spikes to 1.0 every 3-4 days !! No idea why that is happening, I test twice a day and the last test at night shows same as morning test then over night it just jumps to 1.0 around 4th day. Can't be cycling as there is no readable ammonia to become nitrite....confused by that tank....checked decor and it all seems fine, I tested them separately after 24 hours in separate water and did a just water test too and all tested the same, so nothing was causing spike, though plain tap water appears to rise slightly in nitrites after a few days, but not as high as in betta tank......but this nitrite thing is not affecting the other two tanks, just the betta one. All three tanks have the same light gravel substrate.
Im at a loss, just cracking on with daily water changes and hoping for best.....

bet you wished you hadn't asked now lol

edited to add: using tetra aquasafe for all wc, though just switched to tetra pond aqausafe as its more econimical