Betta Fighting Today

[Inchworm]

Fighting bettas has a history rich in tradition and respect. There are rules and customs that have, for generations, kept it from becoming an exercise in cruelty, and instead dictated treating the fish with dignity.

Some time ago I looked at a beautifully done website that was put together by someone who was selling bettas. This site, included information about the fish, how to condition them and prepare them to fight, and other interesting facts.

But clearly, the site was not about fish; it was about making a profit. The owner wanted to sell fish and to recruit people to hold these competitions in their own homes. These people would also make money for their efforts by charging fees to the participants and selling fish. He compared it to having "Tupperware Parties."

Here's a link to the site:

http/www.bettafighters.com/index.html

I guess my main concern is that holding these competitions for sport and profit, without the participants having a firm grounding in the history and traditions of the people who originated it, will lead to trouble for the fish.

In my mind's eye I picture urban apartments and college dorms full of people fighting fish for the sole purpose of winning. What happens to the poor losers? There is no wild to turn them loose, and a fish, even a loser can have a long natural lifespan. Will these fish be cared for with dignity, or will they be killed or allowed to die of neglect and poor living conditions so that the owner's limited amount of tank space can be put to better use housing up and coming young fish?

While tradition dictated respect for both winners and losers, as well as their owners, how will that translate to our modern society that too often rewards only winners and shows disdain for losers? Will fish owners push their fish beyond reasonable limits, perhaps resulting in the death or maiming of them. What about the winners? Will they be forced to compete again and again until they are worn out and die a sad death in the ring?

What do you think of todays organized fight competitions in countries other than where they originated ? Do you think they can and will be done in ways that are fair and beneficial to the fish and the fishkeeping hobby as a whole?

 

[Arashi]

First off, I want to thank you Inchworm for posting this. It hasn't changed my views on betta fighting, but it has got me thinking more about it.

I think that these fights should not be allowed to go on outside of the original countries. Most of the people who are participating in these fights are only in it for the profit, not for the welfare of the fish. On the website that you linked here, I found this:


With the above as background, Betta-fighters.com has worked hard at establishing a virtually foolproof fighter selection procedure. It works as follows:

Fighters that reach a fighting time-line are taken out of their respective ponds and sorted according to size. A minimum of 10 fighters is taken out from each pond.
After a week of conditioning, they are matched up against other fighters in full-scale battle.
Losers are automatically dropped from the selection process and the winners go on to fight fishes from other batches.
The knockout or elimination process goes on for a few days until the best fish prevail.
The best fighters are then marked up and put for sale immediately so that their peak fighting period is taken advantage of.


These people do make their fish fight more than once, and it seems as if they make them fight several times in only a few days. And what happens to the losers? They don't say. I can only hope that they sell them to good homes, and don't destroy them.

The problem is that the people who originated these fights have respect for the bettas that they are fighting...they revere them almost as gods. And these fish are only fought once and are fought for dignity and to strengthen the bloodlines of the fish...not multiple times in a week just for profit or to see some aggression. Now I don't agree with fighting them at all, but at least the ones who are fought in their native country aren't treated as mearly another way to make some quick cash.

 

[bkk_group]

i'm familiar with this site and in one of my previous posts i alluded to the "new school" of fighting rings popping up on the web. in all honesty, i can't condone it. it seems profit motivated to me and i can't compare it to what goes on in thailand. infact, in thailand you would be hard pressed to find any serious breeders who would willingly give up their prize fighters for sale as it would mean losing your competitive edge and weakening your bloodlines. i have talked to a few laotian people here in canada who fight (or have in the past) fought their fish and it's surprisingly hard to get fish (even ones that have been retired) out of them. it is a close circle of enthusiasts who frown upon outsiders.

 

[buggyboutbettas]

I think it is interesting that so much talk about betta fighting has come up lately. Obviously there must be emotions being stirred on both sides of the table. Before I go on, I just want to say that we should always respect people whether they agree with us or not. That doesn't mean we have to respect their practices, but we should respect them as people.

OK. Now for what I really want to say:
In other threads many people (including me on certain ones) have explained in many ways how betta fighting is a cruel and inhumane activity. On the other side there are people who have explained that betta fighting is part of the Thai culture and that we would not be enjoying our bettas today if it wasn't for Thai betta fighting. I believe both statements to be true and legitimate arguments.
However, just because something was done in the past for years or centuries or millenniums, doesn’t mean that it is right. Burning people at the stake has been done for years, so does that mean it’s right? Dog fighting has been done for years, does that mean it’s right? Heck no.
But now you may say that betta fighting is a just part of Thai culture—which is true. And you may say that there are things about our culture that would offend them—and that is most probably true as well.
However, dog and cock fighting is or has been a part of Western culture, isn’t it? But it’s still illegal, isn’t it? Then why should betta fighting be accepted because of a Thai culture, when dog fighting isn’t accepted regardless of our own culture?

 

[thecichlidaddict]

when dog fighting isn’t accepted regardless of our own culture?

Dog fighting is not a part of our culture as it is in thailand, it was nothing more then a gambling sport.

--edit, I get the feeling that it's a gambling culture in thailand as well... is it?

 

[buggyboutbettas]

when dog fighting isn’t accepted regardless of our own culture?

Dog fighting is not a part of our culture as it is in thailand, it was nothing more then a gambling sport.

It is still is a gambling sport. If you go to inner city Chicago or any other major city in the U.S. it is part of that culture. In Thailand, betta fighting is a gambling sport as well. The only reason they won't sell their bettas is because it means a lot of money to them. The dog fighinting arena in the U.S. is the same way. In fact, the whole betta fighting culture works almost the same way the the dog fighting culture works.

 

[bkk_group]

when dog fighting isn’t accepted regardless of our own culture?

Dog fighting is not a part of our culture as it is in thailand, it was nothing more then a gambling sport.

--edit, I get the feeling that it's a gambling culture in thailand as well... is it?

yes it is a gambling sport in thailand, enjoyed predominently by males.
here is a link to an excellent article on the fish fighting society for anyone interested.
inchworm i know this doesn't really relate to the post as it is more of a traditional explanation but does deal with the current state of fighting society in thailand.
fighting society

"Thai family does respects the man as a leader of the family. In the past, Thai man worked outside and the wife was the household work. The second wife was the main problem in Thai family. Since the sanction from the society was not so strong. But it was also not acceptance in the society in general. In Thai fighting fish society we strongly believed that the breeder who has the second wife would never produce the best fighter. We often have the telling story in the fighting ring about the best breeder who never bred the best fighter after he has second wife. Because he has done an immoral practice. This was the mystic answer to scare the people to avoid an unacceptable behavior. An explanation behind this scene is, when man raptures the woman he would spend all his time with the woman and has no time for the fighter. When he went home, his wife would shout to him and they may quarrel. He may not feed and train his fighter well in the proper time. Of course this environment is not good for the good fighter to living with. Keeping the fighting fish also make the man home on time. Because he has to feed and train his fighter in the regular time. The time to caring the fighter is around 16.00 – 19.00 hours. I have been proof this hypothesis by persuading my friends to have a good meal in the big restaurant and I pay for them all. When we were on the way back from the fighting ring. All of them refused to go and said that they had to go back home to see their fighting fish. It seems to me also that they pay more attention on the fishes they got the samples from the breeder to test out more than the delicious food in the restaurant. The household wife likes to see her husband playing the fighting fish rather than he goes to somewhere else that she does not know. Of course the fighting fish game is one factor to keep the family healthy."

 

[White Whale]

when dog fighting isn’t accepted regardless of our own culture?

Dog fighting is not a part of our culture as it is in thailand, it was nothing more then a gambling sport.

--edit, I get the feeling that it's a gambling culture in thailand as well... is it?

Dogfighting is not a part of Thai culture.

 

[Auratus]

I don't see how it being part of a culture makes it okay. I understand why they do it but I still don't agree with it.

Cockfighting is also part of Mexican culture and now American culture but I still think it is wrong to do. Especially because they don't have the slightest bit of respect for the animal as opposed to the Thai culture.

I also think it's the same as dogfighting. It's very brutal and I wont agree with it. I think the second I condone betta fighting I am just as bad as the people who fight pitbulls.

 

[gouramiguy]

its stupid to fight animals thay are your pets man

 

[vantgE]

just a difference i thought was important to note in betta fighting versus, cock or dog fighting

dogs and cocks do not fight to the death in the wild, they have to be abused to persuade them to be viscious, and a betta is going to do this out of insticnt this is in my opinion a huge difference and cannot see these as compared

but I do not have an oipinion yet on tbetta fights, will have to look into it more

 

[Pointy_kitty]

its stupid to fight animals thay are your pets man

you mean it is inappropriate and wrong to fight living creatures for your own benifits/entertainment simply because you are more evolved.

So here is my rant (not for this topic in particular, but towards all cruelty and enviromental topics i have read lately)

Man may be more technologically advanced then mother earths creatures, but not at all more civilized. We kill, we consume, we destroy. We have all of our natural instincts simular to animals, only different motivations. Animals kill for survival. Only god knows why we kill. Humans may be more advanced, but we lack balance. We think we are in control, but we are destroying our own resources needed to stay alive. And even after our best and brightest have discovered these flaws, we continue on our journey into the brick wall that is our own extinction, leaving a trail of ignorance behind us. Now i am not a human hater. I am simply repulsed by ignorance. We are all beautiful in our own little ways, and if you take the time to look there are miracles all around us. Sort of a "Mother Earth forgives you no matter how much you screw up" thing. Like when we chop down a forest and the plants begin to grow back. It reminds me of how my old teacher use to give you hints when you were stuck on a maths problem, but never the entire thing. Our mistakes won't fix themselves entirely on their own, only give us a little push in the right direction. We have to fix them ourselves.

I cannot stand people that have no respect for these so called "lower lifeforms". There is no beast that sins more than man.

from a hippie born a little too late

 

[Pointy_kitty]

just a difference i thought was important to note in betta fighting versus, cock or dog fighting

dogs and cocks do not fight to the death in the wild, they have to be abused to persuade them to be viscious, and a betta is going to do this out of insticnt this is in my opinion a huge difference and cannot see these as compared

but I do not have an oipinion yet on tbetta fights, will have to look into it more

sort of,
but not quite
it is abuse in the fact that, when being conditioned,
the male is put in with female in alot of practices
sort of like fish punching bags
the females are torn and battered,
some survive while others are masacred
in the wind (i beleive it was stated above)
the other bettas can flee if they are beaten,
in a jar,
they are simply "screwed"
not a natural fight IMO
instinctive? yes
natural or "fair?" no

 

[sumer_kay]

*cheers for pointy kitty* I always love what you have to say pointy keep those opinions, (and great advice) coming!

 

[Pointy_kitty]

*cheers for pointy kitty* I always love what you have to say pointy keep those opinions, (and great advice) coming!

hehehe
thanx
i always go from what sounds like a ditsy little 12 year old blonde to a knowledgable and informative adult
i think its because i am 19
not yet an adult but still not a kid