Beneficial Bacteria Help

[BettaFishGirl]

I bought a bottle of Tetra SafeStart a couple weeks ago from Amazon, and I live in Florida where at the hottest time of the day idt 95 degrees (fahrenheit). I ordered the bottle and it came the next day, but I wasn't able to get it right away. It sat out in the heat for about a couple hours. When I brought it in the bottle was very warm. My question is, does it still work? I need to know if it does by tomorrow.

 

[Magnum Man]

see below...

.
This From Tetra... "Best temperature for TSS is between 40 and 80 degrees. Freezing and extreme heat will destroy it. Refrigeration is okay, but not necessary.
You can test the water any time, but really, you should probably wait at least 48 hours. We expect TSS to start slowly seeding the tank, and making a difference in about that time."

I don't personally think the temperatures you listed should be extreme enough to kill the bacteria, but really question the ability to fully load an aquarium within 48 hours... let alone just a couple hours like is listed in the original e-mail...

"So...where to begin? First, ideally you should set up the tank, and let it run at least 24 hours, then, shortly before you head off to the store for your first fish, add TSS to the tank. Within two hours, you should add the fish. "

this really make me question Tetra as a reliable supplier...

 

[BettaFishGirl]

see below...

.
This From Tetra... "Best temperature for TSS is between 40 and 80 degrees. Freezing and extreme heat will destroy it. Refrigeration is okay, but not necessary.
You can test the water any time, but really, you should probably wait at least 48 hours. We expect TSS to start slowly seeding the tank, and making a difference in about that time."

I don't personally think the temperatures you listed should be extreme enough to kill the bacteria, but really question the ability to fully load an aquarium within 48 hours...

I added it to my 5g that had a tiny bit of nitrite and a couple days later there was none. I'm setting up a shrimp tank for a friend, so hopefully it will work.

 

[BettaFishGirl]

I decided to test it, so I filled up a 1 gallon tub with dechlorinated tap water around 36 hours, and put the appropriate amount in. My tap water has .50 ammonia, so I was hoping it would be 0 when I checked this morning, but it's .25 now. I will still use it but along with plants and established filter media in hoping it will be enough.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Tetra's directions are somewhat lacking in detail. But it is the right bacteria which is not the case with most products that claim they establish one's bio-filtration. The deatils of it all are much better explained byt Dr, Hovanec whic actually discovered the bacteria listed in Stfae Start or Safe Start Plus. When Dr. H. did som he worked as the cheief scuentest at the Marineland labs. So he and Mrineland shared the patents involved. When Marineland was bought by a conglomerate for thei pet division, they are owns Tetra. So part ownership of the petent went
with Marineland and the parent company moved it to the Tetra part of th operation and they created Safe Start.

Dr. Hovanec did not wish to go with Marineland and he took over the Marineland factility in CA. and started his own business.

When I say that Tetra's instruction for using Safe Start areacking in detail I was being kind.. They are actually awful. They have taken a very good product and made it hard to use.

On the other hand, Dr. Hovanec's One and Only Nirtifying Bacteria constains the same strains of live bacteria but his directions on use are much more detailed and easy to follow.

The bacteria are pretty hardy. However, if you ket them freeze, they die. If you let the get too warm they die. Tetra is off base but safe when they say "Do not expose to temperatures above 30°C or below 2°C." The 30C is on the low side. Here is how Dr. Hovanec puts it:

Temperatures During Shipping – Nitrifying bacteria are relatively tough bacteria especially ours because we grow them on a small particle (which is why you need to shake the bottle well before adding them to the tank). They tolerate heat very well and only when exposed to temperatures over 130°F for several days do they suffer. At the other extreme, they do not survive freezing and if the bottle arrives frozen solid chances are the bacteria did not survive. If the temperatures in your area are at either of these extremes purchase the extreme weather package

I am not sure re that !30F number above. I am wondering if it wasn't a typo and should be 120F (49C). I have contacted Dr. H. and asked about this. Just as an FYI- there are multiple strains of Nitrosomonas (an ammonia oxidizing bacteria) and here is some science.

Itoh, Y., Sakagami, K., Uchino, Y., Boonmak, C., Oriyama, T., Tojo, F., Matsumoto, M. and Morikawa, M., 2013. Isolation and characterization of a thermotolerant ammonia-oxidizing bacterium Nitrosomonas sp. JPCCT2 from a thermal power station. Microbes and environments, 28(4), pp.432-435.

A thermotolerant ammonia-oxidizing bacterium strain JPCCT2 was isolated from activated sludge in a thermal power station. Cells of JPCCT2 are short non-motile rods or ellipsoidal. Molecular phylogenetic analysis of 16S rRNA gene sequences demonstrated that JPCCT2 belongs to the genus Nitrosomonas with the highest similarity to Nitrosomonas nitrosa Nm90 (100%), Nitrosomonas sp. Nm148 (99.7%), and Nitrosomonas communis Nm2 (97.7%). However, G+C content of JPCCT2 DNA was 49.1 mol% and clearly different from N. nitrosa Nm90, 47.9%. JPCCT2 was capable of growing at temperatures up to 48°C, while N. nitrosa Nm90 and N. communis Nm2 could not grow
at 42°C. Moreover, JPCCT2 grew similarly at concentrations of carbonate 0 and 5 gL−1. This is the first report that Nitrosomonas bacterium is capable of growing at temperatures higher than 37°C.
from https/www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jsme2/28/4/28_ME13058/_pdff

 

[BettaFishGirl]

Tetra's directions are somewhat lacking in detail. But it is the right bacteria which is not the case with most products that claim they establish one's bio-filtration. The deatils of it all are much better explained byt Dr, Hovanec whic actually discovered the bacteria listed in Stfae Start or Safe Start Plus. When Dr. H. did som he worked as the cheief scuentest at the Marineland labs. So he and Mrineland shared the patents involved. When Marineland was bought by a conglomerate for thei pet division, they are owns Tetra. So part ownership of the petent went
with Marineland and the parent company moved it to the Tetra part of th operation and they created Safe Start.

Dr. Hovanec did not wish to go with Marineland and he took over the Marineland factility in CA. and started his own business.

When I say that Tetra's instruction for using Safe Start areacking in detail I was being kind.. They are actually awful. They have taken a very good product and made it hard to use.

On the other hand, Dr. Hovanec's One and Only Nirtifying Bacteria constains the same strains of live bacteria but his directions on use are much more detailed and easy to follow.

The bacteria are pretty hardy. However, if you ket them freeze, they die. If you let the get too warm they die. Tetra is off base but safe when they say "Do not expose to temperatures above 30°C or below 2°C." The 30C is on the low side. Here is how Dr. Hovanec puts it:

Temperatures During Shipping – Nitrifying bacteria are relatively tough bacteria especially ours because we grow them on a small particle (which is why you need to shake the bottle well before adding them to the tank). They tolerate heat very well and only when exposed to temperatures over 130°F for several days do they suffer. At the other extreme, they do not survive freezing and if the bottle arrives frozen solid chances are the bacteria did not survive. If the temperatures in your area are at either of these extremes purchase the extreme weather package

I am not sure re that !30F number above. I am wondering if it wasn't a typo and should be 120F (49C). I have contacted Dr. H. and asked about this. Just as an FYI- there are multiple strains of Nitrosomonas (an ammonia oxidizing bacteria) and here is some science.

Itoh, Y., Sakagami, K., Uchino, Y., Boonmak, C., Oriyama, T., Tojo, F., Matsumoto, M. and Morikawa, M., 2013. Isolation and characterization of a thermotolerant ammonia-oxidizing bacterium Nitrosomonas sp. JPCCT2 from a thermal power station. Microbes and environments, 28(4), pp.432-435.

A thermotolerant ammonia-oxidizing bacterium strain JPCCT2 was isolated from activated sludge in a thermal power station. Cells of JPCCT2 are short non-motile rods or ellipsoidal. Molecular phylogenetic analysis of 16S rRNA gene sequences demonstrated that JPCCT2 belongs to the genus Nitrosomonas with the highest similarity to Nitrosomonas nitrosa Nm90 (100%), Nitrosomonas sp. Nm148 (99.7%), and Nitrosomonas communis Nm2 (97.7%). However, G+C content of JPCCT2 DNA was 49.1 mol% and clearly different from N. nitrosa Nm90, 47.9%. JPCCT2 was capable of growing at temperatures up to 48°C, while N. nitrosa Nm90 and N. communis Nm2 could not grow
at 42°C. Moreover, JPCCT2 grew similarly at concentrations of carbonate 0 and 5 gL−1. This is the first report that Nitrosomonas bacterium is capable of growing at temperatures higher than 37°C.
from https/www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jsme2/28/4/28_ME13058/_pdff

Thank you for the info!!!

Here's how it went: they got ANOTHER .5 gallon tank (SpongeBob kit) and so I had 2 tanks to setup. Unfortunately it turns out there wasn't a filter for each of them so one of them is getting a filter and one of them isn't. I put the beneficial bacteria in so hopefully it will be cycled. Also got live plants and stuff. They got 3 shrimp for each tank.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I emailed Dr, H's site after posting above. My understanding has been that the bacteria should not be allowed to get much over 100F doe any length of time. I quoted the paper above. They responded that it was a lab based experiment which is not the same is in nature and that they stand by their 130F number.

Next, when the bacteria go into the bottle they are in excellent condition. This is important for how well they withstand the adverse conditions in the bottle. They are adverse because almost nothing the bacyeria need to be active and thriving is not there. However, the bacteria have a strategy for surviving hard times, they go into a state of dormancy. They need very little to survive this way for some time. However, if left at room temperature for about 6 months they begin to die back. Kept refrigerated this, would take more like a year.

The fact that individuals are dying means that the total number can no longer resume processing ammonia and nitrite at the same level as when they went into the bottle. However, it does not mean they are all dead. What it does mean is after that amount of time dormant and after they wake back up after being put into a system where there is or soon will be ammonia and then nitrite. they will have to reproduuce some to reach the needed capacity.

What causes the bacteria to wake back up and get to work when we add them to a tank is the presence of ammonia. How much they can process depends on a few factors. The most important is what shape they were in when they went dormant. For a product they should be in top shape when bottled. But this does not mean they wake up and are at full strength instantly. it can take a bit of time. Here is what Dr. Hovanec writes about using the right bacteria to get the cycled established (red added by me):

Using DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only Live Bacteria​

The best and easiest way to fishless cycle is to combine adding the ammonium chloride with our Live Nitrifying bacteria. When used in combination, these will cycle the tank in less than one week.

red added by mefrom https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling/

Cycling is somewhat variable interms of how long it takes whether one is doing it with or without seeding bacteria. There are a number of variables at work some of which we can or cannot measure. For example, temperature matters. The colder the water the longer it takes for the bacteria to reproduce. As mentioned, the condition of the bacteria when they went dormant also can matter. Then there is the amount of bacteria. In general, the more one adds, the faster things will move. One the other hand too much bacteria means a bunch will die off and that can create some issues which can slow a cycle.

Oxygen is very important. In your experiment in the bucket- did you have a heater and/or and airstone or something else to agitate the surface of the water? The bacteria are also photophobic. Did you keep the bucket in a dark place initially?

As you can see there are a lot of variables at work which can have an effect on things. The same applies to using plants. irst, from a good source plants arive with a supply of stored nutrients. How much can vary based on the type of plants and then what you do with them. Those that get planted int the substrate need a bit of time to settle in and develop more roots while those which are floaters are more ready to start consuming pretty fast.

I have cycled a lot of tanks over the years.For some time now I have preferred to cycle filters in a bio-farm rather than in tanks when I am needing to set up multiple tanks at the same time. I do summer tanks and sell at events to which I bring cycled set-ups. I always jumps start my bio-farm using Dr. Tim's One and Only as we as some fitter squeezings from my cycled tanks. I am usually cycling filters for 5 -8 tanks of varying volumes. I also need to stock them fully or even overstock them immediately.

Doing the above it normally takes me 10-14 days to get everything completely cycled, But this is due to the volume of filters involved which makes it easier for something to go off track. When I do a single tank I instantly cycle. and can fully stock immediately. This involves a combination of seeding bacteia and often some live plants which also host the needed bacteria.

We have no way to know haw the bottle of bacteria we buy has been treated prior to arriving at our home. Despite the info you provided, much is missing- temp. of the water, KH and pH of the water and a few other things we may not know about matter. Moreover, ammonia is a a gas which can evaporate from water. And even that is not a simple calculation. Surface afitation promotes gas exchange. So two buckets with identical water and having an indentical amount of ammonia added along with tom bacteria will not react the same way. if one has cooler water and no surface agitation while the second byucket does, you will see siginifcantly different results.

The only thing your bucket experiment showed was that the bacteria was doing something or that .25 would likely have been closer to the .50 when it came from the tap.

One last note. One reason bottled bacteria or seeding it from an established tank accelerates the cycling process is that both types of bacteria are being added. In a normal fishless cycle it starts with the ammonia ones and then proceeds to the nitrite ones. When the bacteria go into the bottle or come from a cycled tank, both types are present and in a balance such that whatever ammonia they can process to nitrite, there are enough bacteria present to process that amount of nitrite to nitrate.