Beginnings Of Something Bad..

loudog

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Can anyone directly identify this algae? I am trying to manually remove it with no luck. I really need to get rid of this before it becomes a big problem.

My nitrates are low, phosphates low....everything is perfect. I think it was introduced through some Java Moss that was given to me.

This is my first post, so hopefully the photos will be attached...


Thanks all.

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Welcome to the Forum loudog.

Your algae is black beard/brush algae (BBA). It is one of the harderst forms of algae to physically remove, as you have experienced.

Give us your tanks specs i.e. tank size, lighting, CO2, fertilisation, plant density etc. and we should be able to help furthur.

One of the most effective short-term techniques to remove it is through excess CO2 or overdosing Flourish Excel. This is fairly risky, especially to someone with little experience but it can be acheived if done carefully. Give us your stats and meanwhile I'll nudge our resident BBA expert, zig.
 
Cheers gf what an honour eh resident expert on bba :crazy: lol..........well yes its true i had a problem with bba, as gf says if you can provide some more info that would be helpful, its definatly bba that you have, if this is a highlight tank and you are injecting co2 then your co2 levels are probably unstable or too low (but probably too low), if this is a non co2 tank its possible you did introduce it, in my experience it can spread quite fast particularily in a highlight tank and also its difficult to get rid of, you need to persist at it whichever method you choose to try and eradicate it, so if you can post your tank stats that would be helpful also if you have any testkits provide those results as well.
 
tank size= 55GAL not near windows

lighting= I have a single T10 at 6,700K

CO2= I do not introduce CO2

fertilization= Being a Discus tank, I am using Peat Granules in the filter

plant density=

Two medium Ruffled Swords (Echinodorus martii)
Four Medium Aponogeton Undulatus
About a 6" square area of Java Moss (Vesicularia dubyana)
I have two bulbs that I grew up and have no idea what they are. The leaves are red in color and are on a stem...no idea. I can post a pic if someone would like to identify.

There is a combination of dark and light driftwood that has been submerged in the tank for about one year. My filtration is coming from a Fluval 404 with inline heater.

Fish: I have four discus all between 3" and 5" and six Otto's.

I have been using DI water since the beginning and keep a close eye on the levels. I only add The Aquarium Pharm Electro-Right to the water before adding it to the tank. I have been extremely successful with the Peat and driftwood keeping my PH and kH/gH perfect.

Substrate: Natural Greenwich Rock from small to medium


Temp: 86
PH: 6.5
PO4: 0-0.1
NO2: 0
NO3: 0
NH3/NH4: 0-0.25


I do a 25% water change weekly and add the same temp water as in the tank. I maintain this by using the following in order:

1. City Water Supply
2. Electronic temperature controlled shower fixture modified.
3. GE GXWH30C Whole House Filter W/Sediment and Carbon filtration (easier on the DI filter)
4. Aquarium Pharm. DI Tap Water Filter
5. 10 Gallon plastic water storage containers


I noticed that the algae appeared as soon as I introduced the plants given to me... last time I ever do that.

I am a newbie to the forum, but not a newbie to the hobby. Thanks for the quick replies!!! This forum is full of great information.
 
Oh Man.... It's getting worse.

Anyone have an idea what might be causing the problem> Might there be a cleanup crew that I can get to handle this?
 
There isnt any fish that i know of that will eat BBA, so you will have to try something else id recommend you overdose with Seachem Flourish Excel, i have had good success with this method, you just have to be careful and watch your fish when you do this for signs of stress, if you see signs of stress stop the treatment straight away.

Flourish excel is a carbon supplement commonly used in planted tanks, basically it is an alternative to using co2, one of the side effects of Flourish Excel is that it has algecidal qualities, in other words it kills certain types of algae especially when you overdose it.

The method of overdosing is as follows, usually the treatment lasts 14 days some have to do it longer sometimes up to 3 weeks.

Normally you do a 50% water change on day 1 and add 5ml excel for each 10 US gallons of water, thereafter on each day add 1ml for each 10 US gallons of water. Now those are the normal instructions for dosing excel what you want to do is to start overdosing the excel to kill the algae, so you follow the instructions above for day 1 and then thereafter for the other days you dose the excel at 2 or 3 times the recommended amount so you will be dosing at 2-3ml per 10 US gallons of water.

Personally i have found overdosing 3x to be most effective but watch your fish, just be aware that it can also kill certain types of plants as well when you overdose it like this.

You will know it is working as usually the bba turns red or reddish before it starts to die off

In you case i would start to dose the excel at normal doses and i would increase the dose gradually until you start seeing results or are dosing at 3x the recommended amount.

One thing that is glaringly obvious about your tank stats is that you have zero readings for nitrate, plants use nitrate as a very important foodsource, in low light tanks it is the fish that will usually provide this, having 0 nitrates in planted tanks will normally induce algae, you also have very low readings for phosphates and this is another important foodsource for plants as well also usually produced as a by product of fish and food waste, and just one last thing that i notice you also show readings for ammonia or ammonium, is this tank cycled or just newly setup or something like that, not that it makes much difference to the algae now that you have it, im just curious.

Good luck with the treatment, just go slowly at first and then increase the doses, you can do water changes as normal during the treatment but add back in Excel at 5ml per 10 US gallons and then overdose as described above for the other days.
 
Zig, Any suggestions on getting rid of this whilst running Co2? This stuff has been a tank buddy for a while and has hitched a ride into my new tank!

Stats at the moment

PH 6.6
No3 20
Po4 above 1 but below 2 - test kit lacks in range need a new one
dKH 4

Lighting is currently at 2.4 WPG - although this may be subject to a slap for my logic HERE

This stuff is a real pain and I would love to start my new venture without it


Ste
 
Zig, Any suggestions on getting rid of this whilst running Co2? This stuff has been a tank buddy for a while and has hitched a ride into my new tank!

Stats at the moment

PH 6.6
No3 20
Po4 above 1 but below 2 - test kit lacks in range need a new one
dKH 4

Lighting is currently at 2.4 WPG - although this may be subject to a slap for my logic HERE

This stuff is a real pain and I would love to start my new venture without it


Ste

If you are running co2 it works exactly the same, you overdose as stated above, its probably more effective to overdose when running co2 like a double whammy, if you have pressurised co2 you can try to increase your levels and this will slow the growth of bba down, but the excel is probably the quickest most effective way.

I should add if you have shrimp overdosing excel is probably not a good idea as they seem to be sensitive to it and it can lead to deaths, it can also kill certain types of plants, egeria densa, riccia, cabomba seem to be sensitive to excel treatment other plants as well, it really depends on the tank. Other plants seem to do fine with no problems at all, the same warning applies though just watch your fish, if you see signs of stress stop the treatment. Personally i didnt have any problems with my fish although i dont keep discus so i dont know how sensitive they are to the treatment, hence the suggestion to loudog to up the dose gradually.

When overdosing the excel everything else is done as normal, water changes, co2, fertilising etc.

What type of co2 are you running Ste, Diy or pressurised?
 
Running pressurised Co2 and got a couple of shrimp in my tank that I am quite fond of so I would rather not go Excel. But If it's the only way then I'll look to getting the shrimp out of there for a bit.

I would love to get rid of this stuff once and for all :D
 
Running pressurised Co2 and got a couple of shrimp in my tank that I am quite fond of so I would rather not go Excel. But If it's the only way then I'll look to getting the shrimp out of there for a bit.

I would love to get rid of this stuff once and for all :D

Well the other way to do it is to up your co2 levels, to get BBA in the first place normally indicates low co2 levels so you would want to double check your levels first of all and find out if everything is ok, in order to slow down or stop the growth of BBA you up the co2 levels to in and around 40-50ppm (usually nearer 50ppm) and then once you have stopped its growth you then remove it by hand or remove entirely any badly infected leaves etc, it should stop growing if you maintain those sort of co2 levels. You could try that until you have an oppertunity to OD the Excel, the OD of Excel should kill it off totally and if you maintain proper co2 levels it shouldnt come back.
 
One thing that is glaringly obvious about your tank stats is that you have zero readings for nitrate, plants use nitrate as a very important foodsource, in low light tanks it is the fish that will usually provide this, having 0 nitrates in planted tanks will normally induce algae, you also have very low readings for phosphates and this is another important foodsource for plants as well also usually produced as a by product of fish and food waste, and just one last thing that i notice you also show readings for ammonia or ammonium, is this tank cycled or just newly setup or something like that, not that it makes much difference to the algae now that you have it, im just curious.


The tank has been running now for two years and I have only lost one discus.. (poor old girl) that was ten years old!!!

The low levels you mentioned are caused by the constant water changes. I will show small amounts of nitrate and ammonia depending on how long I let the water changes go. I am not one to miss changes, but it does happen. Usually the traces peak at normal, but then I am in need of a water change and they drop to zero once again. I can always try smaller water changes more frequently, but I have been successful so far.

I am going to rey and remove the algae like you said. Would blackouts or at least shortening the light cycle help at all with this type of algae?

Thanks for all of your help.....
 
A blackout wont help with this type of algae, reducing the photoperiod will help limit the growth of most algaes this one included, but IME once BBA takes hold you are not going to reverse its growth until you eradicate it, the lights should not be on for more than 10-12 hours daily anyway, anymore than this and you give algae the upper hand, for now i would reduce the photoperiod until you start the treatment with Excel, 8 hours a day is plenty for now, use less if you want.
 
Would blackouts or at least shortening the light cycle help at all with this type of algae?

I dont think either of these would help very much as I have tried both in the past with no luck - Zig may be able to advise better though

I'm going to try to OD on Excel and have got some on order today

Zig or anybody as learned

If i'm running my Co2 at the moment to a level of 30ppm bearing in mind that it's currently controlled via a solenoid [1hr before lights - as the lights go off] Would I need to reduce my level when dosing with Excel?

Would Excel have any impact to my PH? currently 6.6 and don't really want to risk a major crash - I have a train of thought at the moment thats leading to the purchase of a PH controller, this should allow a little breathing space through the OD treatment i.e. the Co2 will switch off if PH starts to swing and thus hopefully reduce the chance of disaster - Does this make sense?

I'll also be away for some of the Excel treatment so i'll be leaving instructions for my wife


Is it also a good idea to continue with the dosing of Nitrates etc whilst performing this treatment?


Loudog sorry to hijack this thread but hopefully we will both get this sorted once and for all

Ste
 
You continue everything else as normal.

You do not reduce your co2, it will not affect your ph because excel is an organic carbon source, it is not carbonic acid that we get when we inject pressurised co2 from a gasous or liquid state.

IMO you do not need a ph controller a solenoid is sufficient, some of the worst experiences i have read about with co2 usually involved a malfunctioning ph controller, many people will not use them for this reason.
 
IMO you do not need a ph controller a solenoid is sufficient, some of the worst experiences i have read about with co2 usually involved a malfunctioning ph controller, many people will not use them for this reason.

Cheers Zig

I have been trying to read up on the whole PH control thing and from what I can gather it's a love hate thing. Unlucky for me I have to be away from home several times a Month so the tank is left to it's own devices, my wife god bless her wouldn't know if anything was wrong and as long as the fishies are there my 3yr old is happy

The controller was a way of ensuring that things didn't go pear shaped when I was away but your right about disasters happening with those as well. Think i'll stick with original idea of digital PH tester - those shades of green are a nightmare!
 

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