Beginner questions for planted tank

[javajo]

Hello -

As you can see from my tank parameters, I'm currently battling an amonia problem - doing 10% water changes every other day....


I've been keeping fish for a couple of years now and really enjoy the fun and relaxation it offers me. Now, I really want to get serious about creating a planted tank environment.

As you can see, I have a few plants but I'd like to expand my knowledge and skill level.

Judging by my current tank setup, what type of light would you suggest? I currently have a plant bulb that makes the tank look green. It needs to be replaced being that it's over 6 months old and I'm wondering what I should go with. I've read in a fish magazine that for a planted tank, I'm going to want a daylight bulb (5000K) in conjunction with an actinic white or actinic day lamp. I'd have to change my lighting hood to accomodate two bulbs but that's fine.

Also, my substrate is a mix of small gravel and Laterite. I'm thinking that pure Laterite with no gravel might be the way to go?

What about plant food?

Thanks for helping a "planted tank" newbie out!

 

[mrnewbie]

do u lose many fish , with ammonia and nitrate levels as in your sig , how do your fish survive ???

the amount of fish in that little 29 gallon tank with v small water changes no wonder u have an ammonia problem u need to reduce the amount of fish for a start ,or u need to do much bigger water changes to keep your ammonia and nitrate down ? it looks 2 me like your filtration system cant cope with the massive load in the tank ,

just noticed thisin your sig:

Water changes:
5 gallons usually every 1-2 months

no where near enough water change 10 % a week = 3 gallon * 8 weeks = 24 gallon so 5 is nowhere near enough or good enough ? possibly the cause of yuor high levels

 

[Tempestuousfury]

I talked to a manager at my Petsmart and asked him to come to this forum. he's somewhat of a plant buff, so I'm hoping he shows.

Anyways, if the amonia's high, I suggest that you wait for the ammonia to be fully cycled, again, because the nitrates are the fertilizer that the plants use, and there seems to be quite a bit of it in your tank already.

Anyways, if there still isn't enough, you could get liquid plant food with iron and nitrates, or you can get tablets to place under the plants. They come in different strengths, so you shoudl start with a weak one and see if it works.

Fluorescent lights are the best for plants, because that's the part of the light spectrum they use for photosynthesis. The actinic lights are more expensive than the normal bulbs, so if you don't need too much light, I'd suggest getting the cheaper ones unless you can buy the expensive ones.

Also, if you've got a bubble bar in there, it diffuses the CO2 in the water, which they use at night and should therefore be turned off then. There are also some CO2 tablets or such which I'm not familiar with.

Always remove snails before adding plants, and if you have any fish in there, make sure they are voracious plant eaters!

 

[mrV]

Are you sure your ammonia test work fine? If your pH is really 6, then there cannot be so much ammonia. There should be at most ammonium-ions (NH4+).

You have alot of fishes in your tank (too much) and you do change too little water. You should change watercouple times a week about 25%.

Judging by my current tank setup, what type of light would you suggest?

Dimension of your tank? (lenght*wide*high)

 

[Bol]

javajo,

First, for your ammonia problem, 10% every other day probably isn't going to do much good. Think of it this way ... at most, if you start with 7ppm ammonia, every 10% change will only remove 0.7 ppm. If the tank is somewhat mature (i.e. has been cycled and used to be stable, and the ammonia problem is new), I'd personally do a large (40-50%) water change initially, then follow up with 25% changes every third day until it clears. If the tank is not mature, then it sounds like the tank is cycling, which is another matter.


But, anyway, in regards to your original question, I would have to say it depends on how "serious" you want to get about plants.

From what I've gathered, there are three main factors to deal with in regards to your plants. In what I think is the generally accepted order of importance, they are lighting, carbon dioxide (CO2), and nutrients.

Lighting

What "flavor" of light is best is up to debate. Most people like lights in the 6300 (or is it 6500?) range. Lots of people rave about GE 9325 degree bulbs, but those may only exist in compact flourescent form. From everything I've ever seen, most people agree that bluer bulbs are not the best for plants.

How much light is a bigger question. Most people use a "watts per gallon" (wpg) rating to describe their lights, although this is just a guideline, as there are a lot of variables involved.

Assuming you have a "standard" 29 gallon tank, its measurements should be 30"x12"x18" (length, width, height). You mention a "plant bulb", so I'm guessing you have a normal flourescent light strip. Almost all normal flourescent bulbs use 10 watts per 12" of length. So, if you have a bulb that stretches all the way across your tank, it's a 30" bulb (which is actually 29" and change, if you measure it). Or, you could have a 24" bulb in a 30" enclosure; that's not uncommon. A 30" bulb is most likely 25 watts, and a 24" bulb will almost certainly be 20 watts. So, right now, you're running between 0.66 and 0.85 wpg, depending on the length of your bulb.

Most people will consider anything under 1.5 wpg as "low-light". It's quite possible to grow healthy plants under low-light conditions, but you'll be more limited in the type of plants you can grow successfully.

Usually, to get above 1.5 wpg, you'll have to switch to something other than normal output (NO) fluorescent bulbs. The most popular option is what's known as "compact flruorescent" (CF) bulbs. CF lights are pretty expensive, though.

Carbon Dioxide

Since plants turn CO2 into 02 in the presence of light, you may find that, as you increase the amount of light in your tank, the plants are sucking up all the CO2 in your water. If they had more, they'd be healthier. Some people believe that injecting CO2 can help even under low-light conditions. Almost everyone will suggest injecting CO2 if you're near or above the 2.0 wpg mark, and it's pretty unanimous that if you get up above around 3.5 wpg, CO2 injection is an absolute must.

There is an alternative to injecting CO2 which works pretty well at lower light levels -- it's adding other forms of carbon. The most popular way to do this that I've seen is to use a product called Flourish Excel (by SeaChem). It's a liquid that you add to your tank daily or every other day. My 500mL bottle cost around $5-8 online, and that the bottle will treat 100 gallons for 1-2 months. So, it would treat your tank for 3-7 months. Doesn't help as much as CO2 injection, but in the right conditions, it is a sufficient alternative (some people use both at the same time, too).

Nutrients

Your nutrient needs will vary somewhat depending on the types of plants you have. Most stem and rhizome plants (like hornwort, anacharis, java fern, java moss, etc) get their nutrients from the water. Other plants (such as crypts, swords, etc) get most of their nutrients from the substrate.

I personally have no experience with substrates (such as Flourite, Laterite, Eco-Complete, etc)., so I'll bow out on that part of the discussion.

In either case, the four nutrients that are mentioned the most (as far as "dosing" goes) seem to be:

NO3 -- nitrates
PO4 -- phosphates
K -- potassium
FE -- iron

When the need is found, most of these nutrients are dosed by just adding them to your water (usually from a pre-made solution, or after mixing them with a little tank water in a cup). These nutrient additions are not necessarily expensive, or hard to find. As the best example, an almost universally suggested method of adding phosphates is to buy a Fleet enema from a drugstore. For $2 or so, you have enough phosphate to last for several months.


Woops, sorry for the incoherent rambling . I'd mention again, that it mostly depends on how "serious" you want to get. Are you looking more towards a low-light, inexpensive, low-maintenance tank that looks nice but may not win any aquascaping awards, or a high-light, "all stops pulled" tank, or somewhere in between?

 

[javajo]

Thanks for the response!

I'd probably want to go with a setup in-between the two - a nice planted tank that's not going to force me to spend all my free time caring for it but none the less look great and give me valuable experience and pleasure.

I'd like to be able to walk into a LFS - buy some nice plants - have the knowledge to be able to know if I'm buying low light plants etc... and get them to flourish in my tank.

Am I rambling?

I guess I'd just like to create a more natural environment for my fish that closely resembles their natural habitat while in the process, getting some eye-popping results.

 

[Bol]

First thing I'd recommend, then, is going to Plantgeeks, and checking out the Plant Profile section. You can list plants by light requirements, and ease of care, and other categories. Plus there's lots of pictures of the plants.

Also, the forums there are full of lots of useful information, but it can be a little overwhelming.

The biggest factor, and one you probably should nail down from the start, is how much lighting you want.

A twin "regular" NO strip would give you 50 watts, over 30 gallons. That's inching into the CO2 injection category, and you'd probably want to keep mostly to low-light plants). Keep in mind, a twin tube would probably be about 7" deep -- meaning you'd probably have to have an all-glass top under the light.

If you want to go higher, you'd probably have to go with compact fluorescents. To tell the truth, 30" is an odd length for CFs. If I remember correctly, 36W CF bulbs are about 18" long, and 55W CF bulbs (as close to a "standard" for aquarium CFs as there is) are about 21" long.

Here are some options you can look at:

All-Glass CF strips

PowerCompact CF strip lights

and Coralife Aqualight CF strips *Note: these only come in 24", 36", and 48" models, but if they'll fit, you could use the 24" in the front of your tank, and your current normal strip behind it.

Also, if you're handy, there are many retrofit kits available, that let you put CF lights into existing light enclosures.