Barbs, Tetra or both? Plus dithers

[mbsqw1d]

Hello..
GH is around 5
PH is around 7
I keep the temp between 22-23C / 72F
Tank size is 200 litre / 53G and 100cm long
Current habitants are 12 Peppered Corydora and some cherry shrimp

Whilst I like the idea of keeping it South American, some Barbs have caught my eye.
I love the Odessa, and they'd suit my lower temp, but don't they require higher PH? And would 100cm be big enough?
Joint second choice are Pentazona and Black Ruby, I believe the water parameters suit either.

So considering the South American 'biotope' (not strictly as many of my plants wouldn't be found there), I'm nowhere near making a decision on what Tetra I could keep, either alongside the barbs (and corys) or alone (with the corys). Are there any tetra as stunning as the barbs that can be kept at lower temps?

For dither fish, for either scenario, I was just thinking of some zebra danios.. but again, these wouldn't fit a s.american setup. I

I can't help feel like I need to educate myself a great deal about tetras?


Oh, and of course.. l'll be adding some Otos..


Thanks for any suggestions, information on tetras

 

[CassCats]

neon tetras like cooler temps, so do skirt tetras (well, skirts can be kept cooler).


But honestly barbs are good too, I think you should be okay with a shoal of odessas

 

[utahfish]

Hello..
GH is around 5
PH is around 7
I keep the temp between 22-23C / 72F
Tank size is 200 litre / 53G and 100cm long
Current habitants are 12 Peppered Corydora and some cherry shrimp

Whilst I like the idea of keeping it South American, some Barbs have caught my eye.
I love the Odessa, and they'd suit my lower temp, but don't they require higher PH? And would 100cm be big enough?
Joint second choice are Pentazona and Black Ruby, I believe the water parameters suit either.

So considering the South American 'biotope' (not strictly as many of my plants wouldn't be found there), I'm nowhere near making a decision on what Tetra I could keep, either alongside the barbs (and corys) or alone (with the corys). Are there any tetra as stunning as the barbs that can be kept at lower temps?

For dither fish, for either scenario, I was just thinking of some zebra danios.. but again, these wouldn't fit a s.american setup. I

I can't help feel like I need to educate myself a great deal about tetras?


Oh, and of course.. l'll be adding some Otos..


Thanks for any suggestions, information on tetras

I wouldnt keep odessa barbs with smaller slower moving tetras like neons or long finned ones like congos or other long finned tetra. Odessa are active swimmers and can be nippy. I also wouldnt keep danios with slower swimming tetra like neons as their erratic fast swimming stress out most tetras. Bigger tetras like serpaes phantoms might work with odessa. Blue tetra or bloodfin tetra are fast swimmers that can handle barbs. As always all tetra are shoalers. I also wouldnt put ottos in with odessa barbs. Ottos are super shy sensitive fragile fish and a semi aggressive fish like odessa barb isnt a good fit for yhem in my opinion.

 

[AquaBarb]

Hello..
GH is around 5
PH is around 7
I keep the temp between 22-23C / 72F
Tank size is 200 litre / 53G and 100cm long
Current habitants are 12 Peppered Corydora and some cherry shrimp

Whilst I like the idea of keeping it South American, some Barbs have caught my eye.
I love the Odessa, and they'd suit my lower temp, but don't they require higher PH? And would 100cm be big enough?
Joint second choice are Pentazona and Black Ruby, I believe the water parameters suit either.

So considering the South American 'biotope' (not strictly as many of my plants wouldn't be found there), I'm nowhere near making a decision on what Tetra I could keep, either alongside the barbs (and corys) or alone (with the corys). Are there any tetra as stunning as the barbs that can be kept at lower temps?

For dither fish, for either scenario, I was just thinking of some zebra danios.. but again, these wouldn't fit a s.american setup. I

I can't help feel like I need to educate myself a great deal about tetras?


Oh, and of course.. l'll be adding some Otos..


Thanks for any suggestions, information on tetras

Odessa barbs PH ranges from 6.5-8.5 so yours is fine along with the size of your tank.

They arent nippy fish and will get on with many other specie but i wouldnt do Otto's with them (Ive tried this)because you will find getting food to them difficult with the Odessa's being quick to polish off what you put in.

Ive got both Tetra and Barbs and it will (imo) be hard to find a Tetra what wont get lost next to the stunning colours of the Odessa's. It depends on what kind of mood in the tank you like also. Tetra's are more chilled while the Barbs have more personality. Id go the barbs route personally or a tetra combo instead.

 

[Byron]

My comments on your initial post, and some of this will already have been mentioned but it is easier for me to respond to a post in its entirety.

Barbs. The Pethia padamya (Odessa) are very active, the other two less so. The tank is suited to whichever (so far as size and parameters) so it is your call whether you want an active tank or more moderate. The choice of barb will determine which other fish (tetras) will work. However, there is little space left once you have a decent-sized group of whichever barb. The barb species will be "centrepiece." A suitable species of danio coould be considered. Suitable tetras would require more thought, but again the space is very limited with barbs, as they should have 8-10 of the species, and the more active the more space they will use.

Corydoras are fine with any of these. Otos I wouldn't.

Leaving out the barbs, you could do a South American tank. There are active and non-active tetras. Cories and otos fine. With tetras, unless you went with one of the larger species like Bleeding Heart, you will have groups of smaller and generally less-active fish than with barbs. This usually opens up "centrepiece" fish for many aquarists, like a solitary Bolivian Ram cichlid. Options are certainly many.

 

[mbsqw1d]

Would three types of tetra be ok together? Serpae, Black Widow and Lemon? These are all ok at a lower temperature and will keep inhabitants native to s.america. I'd be looking at having at least 12 of each

 

[Byron]

Would three types of tetra be ok together? Serpae, Black Widow and Lemon? These are all ok at a lower temperature and will keep inhabitants native to s.america. I'd be looking at having at least 12 of each

No problem with numbers per say. Both Serpae (Hyphessobrycon eques) and Black Widow/Skirt (Gymnocorymbus ternetzi) are feisty, prone to fin nip. In groups of 10-12 of the individual species the nipping among themselves is usually controlled, but other species that are sedate or long-fin will still be targeted. I mention this because it will limit additional fish additions. The Lemon (Hyphessobrycon pulchripinnis) are peaceful, and a bit active so no issue there.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Ooohh, that would be a beautiful mix of tetra! Lemon, black and orange? Striking!

I'm sorry for nagging at you and bombarding you with photos of otocinclus so much, and selling you on the idea, I'd forgotten that you had planned to get barbs too.

@Byron do you think otos would be okay with that mix of tetra? I know the serpai and black widows can be fin nippy, but since otos are fast, elusive and short finned, and the tetra would be occupied with each other, might they be okay since the tank is heavily planted and also has cories?

 

[mbsqw1d]

Have also discovered Beckfordi Pencil fish.. assume these are ok with most tetra?

 

[Byron]

@Byron do you think otos would be okay with that mix of tetra? I know the serpai and black widows can be fin nippy, but since otos are fast, elusive and short finned, and the tetra would be occupied with each other, might they be okay since the tank is heavily planted and also has cories?

Given the tank size here, otos should manage provided there are lots of plants and the surface is nearly covered with them. In open tanks (little plant coverage, especially at the surface), or in smaller tanks, it would not be recommended. Otos are not active fish, they like to browse surfaces especially plant leaves, and they are easy targets for nipping if they happen to be in a tank with fish that are at all territorial when it comes to the upper levels especially. Cories are different, they will tend to remain lower down generally, particularly if upper fish keep annoying them, though that is not meant to imply the poor cories can be subjected to stressful tankmates.

Have also discovered Beckfordi Pencil fish.. assume these are ok with most tetra?

Not really. Nannostomus beckfordi is commonly available, and is quite a hardy fish especially among the species in this genus which contains (at present) all known species of pencilfish. But males are highly territorial, and they consider the surface area "their territory." I have had to remove a group of this species three times due to the males' continual nipping of otos (ties in to the above), hatchetfish, and some upper tetras. Nannostomus trifasciatus has a similar well-developed sense of territory, and i had to move mine in with the N. beckfordi and they get along well, perhaps because of their very similar disposition/temperament. Some species, like N. marginatus, N. espei, N. mortenthaleri, N. eques, N. unifasciatus, and N. digrammus tend in my experience (I have had all of these) to leave other fish alone. Males within some of the species will challenge one another and "spar" sometimees, but without injury.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Given the tank size here, otos should manage provided there are lots of plants and the surface is nearly covered with them. In open tanks (little plant coverage, especially at the surface), or in smaller tanks, it would not be recommended. Otos are not active fish, they like to browse surfaces especially plant leaves, and they are easy targets for nipping if they happen to be in a tank with fish that are at all territorial when it comes to the upper levels especially. Cories are different, they will tend to remain lower down generally, particularly if upper fish keep annoying them, though that is not meant to imply the poor cories can be subjected to stressful tankmates.



Not really. Nannostomus beckfordi is commonly available, and is quite a hardy fish especially among the species in this genus which contains (at present) all known species of pencilfish. But males are highly territorial, and they consider the surface area "their territory." I have had to remove a group of this species three times due to the males' continual nipping of otos (ties in to the above), hatchetfish, and some upper tetras. Nannostomus trifasciatus has a similar well-developed sense of territory, and i had to move mine in with the N. beckfordi and they get along well, perhaps because of their very similar disposition/temperament. Some species, like N. marginatus, N. espei, N. mortenthaleri, N. eques, N. unifasciatus, and N. digrammus tend in my experience (I have had all of these) to leave other fish alone. Males within some of the species will challenge one another and "spar" sometimees, but without injury.

You are a gem to have on this forum, you are very much appreciated! Not only because you know a lot of the science and use real research along with your own experiences, but also because you're so willing to explain and share with those of us who are newer, and need the help! Thank you

 

[Byron]

You are a gem to have on this forum, you are very much appreciated! Not only because you know a lot of the science and use real research along with your own experiences, but also because you're so willing to explain and share with those of us who are newer, and need the help! Thank you

Thank you, sincerely.

 

[mbsqw1d]

Odessa barbs PH ranges from 6.5-8.5 so yours is fine along with the size of your tank.

They arent nippy fish and will get on with many other specie but i wouldnt do Otto's with them (Ive tried this)because you will find getting food to them difficult with the Odessa's being quick to polish off what you put in.

Ive got both Tetra and Barbs and it will (imo) be hard to find a Tetra what wont get lost next to the stunning colours of the Odessa's. It depends on what kind of mood in the tank you like also. Tetra's are more chilled while the Barbs have more personality. Id go the barbs route personally or a tetra combo instead.

Hey Russ, so I plunged for the Odessa and picked up 13 yesterday. My initial thoughts are that I may have ended up with mostly males (10?) despite asking for 50/50... do you think you have an equal ratio? I read here that it doesn't matter too much (with Odessa).
Also, how long would you say it took yours to adjust to their new home? Mine are spending a fair amount of time hiding in the vallis. There is some good surface cover for them, from overgrown vallis and frogbit. I know you have rubys with them, but do you have any other fish that is possibly acting as a dither for them? Cheers.

 

[AquaBarb]

Hey Russ, so I plunged for the Odessa and picked up 13 yesterday. My initial thoughts are that I may have ended up with mostly males (10?) despite asking for 50/50... do you think you have an equal ratio? I read here that it doesn't matter too much (with Odessa).
Also, how long would you say it took yours to adjust to their new home? Mine are spending a fair amount of time hiding in the vallis. There is some good surface cover for them, from overgrown vallis and frogbit. I know you have rubys with them, but do you have any other fish that is possibly acting as a dither for them? Cheers.

They will settle pretty quickly with or without other fish in the tank. Their not as fussy with decor or plants as say your typical Tetra but will settle in nicely and show better colouration in a heavily planted tank with floating plants above to diffuse the light some what (yours looks prefect for them to thrive ). I introduced the Odessa's first too my tank and they settled in very well.

I like/aim for a ratio of 1m to 2f or a even ratio. I went for 12 Odessa's with an even ratio but my lfs was short on males at the time so i have 6f with 3m's in my group. I did plan on getting more males but didnt want to alter the established pecking order etc.

Ive read all ratio's work just fine but with certain species the problem with more males is that the females might not get much rest when the males start getting frisky etc. I dont really see alot of chasing within my group tbf but its something you might just want to monitor over the next few weeks.

You wont be disappointed, they are fantastic fish to have