Bad Water

spidergravy

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Hello there

I;ve just posted about my neon tetra, but while I'm with you and I have your attention, I'd really appreciate some help with my water quality. It's rubbish.

I inherited the tank, all 220 or so litres of it, from a friend of a friend in January. She said that one of its inhabitants was 19 years old, but I don't know the age of the tank. For all I know it might not be that far off that age. She hadn't cleaned it in a very long time, and it had an under-gravel filtration system. When we moved the tank I took just about all the water with me, but I noticed that there was a LOT of gunk, powdery, slimy or generally muddy, under the gravel. Eventually I replaced the undergravel filter - actually, I turned it off and left the framework where it was, but added my external tetratec 1200 filter instead. I've had very little luck adding fish to the tank, as they often die quite quickly, which was my first indication of something being wrong.

My water stats are as follows:

nitrite - 0ppm
ammonia - 0ppm
pH - 7.0 - 7.2
KH - 3dKH (53ppm)
GH - more than 40dGH (>700ppm) - seriously, I got bored of adding drops after 40

Also, my nitrates are sky high. Off the scale, like the GH. My water test kit is a liquid one by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, but I also use test strips to measure the nitrates because for some reason the liquid one doesn't test that.

I take about 20 litres out of my 250 litre tank about once every 10 days to two weeks. I suction the gravel at the same time. I change the white woolly filter then too, and every few weeks I change the carbon one. Haven't got round to changing anything else in the filter canister.

Fish-wise I have a giant common pleco, half a dozen neon tetra, a dozen or so guppies, a clown loach, a black shark, five minnows, four swordtails and two danios. The last few times I've changed the white wooly filter, and this week when I removed the carbon to treat ich, I've noticed something weird in the filter. Tiny white balls, look a bit like eggs, no more than a milimetre across in both the wool and the carbon filter. They appear to be organic rather than gravel, but there are hundreds of them. My first thought was some sort of mite (cos I used to do entymology) or eggs, or maybe snail eggs, but I really don't know. I was having flood-issues when I changed the filter this time, so I didn't get photos, but does this sound familiar to anyone?

I've tried nitrate-minus, and a variety of other products guaranteed to reduce nitrates, but nothing has worked so far. I'd not checked the hardness before, so the GH reading is actually a bit of a shock to me and I've not tried anything to reduce that at all. Any suggestions? I'm a bit concerned about all the gunk under the gravel but I hoover it quite regularly and I understand that sometimes this is actually good for the bacterial colonies in there.

Please, treat me as a newbie, pretend I haven't been doing this for a while, and give me some pointers as to just how often I should be doing what.

Hope you can help...
 
I'll preface this by saying I could be wrong but.....If it were me I would remove fish into a large tupperware container, with filter or air pump running. Remove some of the water. Then, remove the UGF, as it just traps dirt and affects water quality. Then do a THOROUGH vac of the substrate, until 60-70% of the water is removed. Refill(using conditioner and matching water temps)...and acclimate fish as you would if they were new. Release fish into nice clean water!!! BTW, while you're at it, you may as well clean up any algae too. Now, you've got a tidy days work ahead!!!

Follow up with 25% weekly water changes...
 
Wow, thank you Sharon, I appreciate the help. Will get someone to take care of the baby, the toddler and the giant puppy and give it a go at the weekend!

When you say condition the water, do you mean anything other than adding something to remove the chlorine? I have 'chlor-out' or some such stuff. I add stresscoat every now and then too.

Would you be concerned with the water hardness? I know that our local water is about as hard as it gets in the UK - is there anything I can do to reduce it, or is that not a problem?

Should I be doing 25% water changes every week all the time? And hoovering the gravel at the same time?

Anything else you can help me with?!

Thank you again.
 
Gosh, sounds like you've got your hands full!!! When I say condition the water, I mean add a dechlorinator...I use Stress Coat with every water change. I don't recommend trying to lower the water hardness...it's difficult, and messing with it can cause the ph to be unstable. I think your fish can adjust to your water. Yes, 25-30% water change once a week, and vac the substrate . You've got a pleco, who is a poop machine. You could even do two water changes per week if you have the time. This should keep the nitrates at an acceptable level, and fish should be happy!
 
Great, will start at the weekend. Like turning over a new fish-caring leaf or at least giving them a fighting chance of looking after themselves a bit!

Thank you for your help.
 
what you're dealing with is called 'old tank syndrom' it's where a tank hasn't been cared for very well and the water quality has deteriorated over time, the fish in the time have gradually been acclimitised to the poor water as it worsened however any new fish are not acclimitised and as such die immediately or have a lot of problems with the older fish remaining fine.

Old tank sydrome must be eased out of rather than a sudden thing, if you immediately got the water back where it should be the old fish would die from the shock so you have to be careful.

You should start out with daily water changes, just small ones of about 10% each day and do a small gravel vac with it, after a couple of weeks of this the gravel should be fairly clean at this point you can take out the old UG Filter and again continue with the changes. Just keep testing the water and doing this until it returns to normal parameters, when this is done you can stop daily changes and go to a normal maintenance routine of a 30% change once a week and a few weeks later you can consider adding new fish to the tank if there is space. :good:
 
Miss Wiggle...Wouldn't acclimating the fish slowly, as if they were new, take care of any problems...
 
no, water's been too bad for too long for that. the acclimitisation that we do for new fish would be woefully inadequate I'm afraid. It really does need to be a long careful process to bring them back. there's a pinned topic on old tank sydrome somewhere that i'll dig out for a bit more reading.
 
I absolutely agree with Miss Wiggle. Small water changes to begin with is the only way to go, and it does sound very much like Old Tank Syndrome.

Here is a good link to help you understand further.

http://www.bestfish.com/oldtank.html

BTT :good:
 
Thank you everyone, will start today and let you know (if you're interested) how I get on!
 
Hello! I'm back. I have been taking a couple of buckets of water out of my tank every evening or couple of evenings and tonight there didn't seem to be much gunk left in the gravel, so I bit the bullet and pulled out the undergravel filter mat. Ooooooh, that was nasty! Possibly about 20 years of build-up came spewing out, but fortunately my water cleared in about three hours, so the fishies should be alright. I've even put all the rocks back and made some little hidey holes for the black shark (who's got HUGE - haven't seen him properly for months cos he keeps hiding) and clown loach. Now I have something else to ask - I mentioned it in my first post but didn't get a reply, so here goes.

In my white wooly filter (I use wadding from my sewing shop cos it's thicker, cheaper and traps more gunk) I get egg-like things all the time. Some of them are white, others are clear and gelatinous, but they're tiny, maybe only a milimetre across. Lots of them look like shells, so I'm wondering if they could be dead snails from YEARS ago, come to the surface when I hoover. I dug out my ancient microscope and took these pictures. These are all 60x except the texture one, which is 200x.

eggthing1.jpg
eggthing2.jpg

eggthing3.jpg
eggthing4.jpg

eggthing6.jpg
eggthing7.jpg


surfacetexture200x.jpg


They don't appear to be sand because they pop, and they have water in them, but I have no idea what they are or if I need to worry about them. Can anyone help me?!

Thank you for the previous advice you gave me, I'll check my water stats when the last of the cloudiness has subsided and see how my nitrites are.
 

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