Bad Medicine?

[alaphere]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here. Im sorry I have to start with such a morbid post but my one and only betta died this morning and im trying to get some answers.

First, a little backstory.
Me and my girlfriend bought a beautiful dark blue betta during the summer to keep as a pet (we live in the dorms, so fish are our only option) It was kept in a 2.5 gallon heated and filtered tank. All accessories were bought from the same petstore and picked out by us and one of their fish experts. We always did 50% water changes every 2 weeks
The tank was, as i mentioned, heated and filtered, with a few little decor items and a live plant in the corner. We, unfortunately, had to move it when we had our winter break, so we took out half the water and drove it 1 1/2 hrs. home so it wouldn't starve to death over the 3 week break. It developed some small spots around its face, but we thought nothing of it and when we brought it back, he went back to his normal self. But the second time we took him home (again for another long break) I noticed the spots came back, and his belly started getting bigger, also, the live plant fell out of its pot and there was dirt everywhere in the water, again I didnt think too much of this and just watched to make sure he was ok and let the filter do its job. When we brought him back to the dorms however was when the problems started. The spots didnt go away, his belly got even bigger and he developed fin rot. We took a sample of his water back to the original pet store we bought him from and they said the nitrate level in the water was a little high, but nothing major and gave us some medicine. 2 days after we started the medicine, he got really really bad. Fin rot got exponentially worse, spots got bigger and appeared all over his body, and he stopped eating alltogether. He got so bad that last night when I got back from work, his tail was caught in the filter and he was stuck there, im guessing cause he was too weak to swim out of the current (this is an approved betta filter that he has always lived with) and just this morning he died.
Needless to say both me and my girlfriend are extremely sad at the death of cozmo (his name) he was our "little dude" for just about 8 months now, but now hes no longer with us.

Ok, sorry about the long backstory but I thought it would help in my question. Why did he develop the spots (i think it was some sort of bacterial infection) in the first place? And why, only after we gave him the medicine the store gave us (melafix) did he get soo bad soo fast

 

[modaz]

what colour were the spots? white?

 

[alaphere]

what colour were the spots? white?

Yeah, white spots, they looked "indented" on his body/face

 

[5teady_2012]

Could be ick (white spot), this needs treating with anti white spot meds...

Usually it is brought on by stress, bad water quality...

Not sure the full ins and outs of this but im sure someone could help you more who as a good knowledge of disease... (wilder is good with diseases)

 

[WILDER]

Colour of the spots would be a big help, and the size of the spots.
Whitespot look like the fish has been sprinkled in salt,
Yellow golden spots is velvet.

 

[Amunet]

Could've been something wrong with the slime coat. Or maybe columnaris.
Probably the uncycled tank weakened his immune system as the tank went through the cycling process with him in it.. and the stress of moving around allowed for some kinf of internal bacterial infection to occur.

 

[JimShorts]

Sorry to hear about Cozmo. First thing that comes to mind would be ich, but I'm no expert on diseased by any means.

 

[LauraFrog]

If the spots looked like small crystals, it sounds like ich/whitespot.
If they were larger - thumnail size - could have been columnaris. Columnaris is a *****, it's hard to cure and often fatal. Finrot is a classic symptom. Also common is the saddleback lesion - from just under the dorsal fin, across one or both sides of the back.

 

[Monty2451]

Melafix is a good cure-all for bettas. If you salt the tank (1/2 teaspoon of aquarium salt per gallon) and add 10 drops of Melafix per gallon with every water change this should drastically reduce a bettas chances of getting sick with external, and even some internal bacteria infections, such as ick and velvet. If one does get ick or velvet though, use the Melafix treatment for a full week and then do a hefty water change (50%-75%) in addition to your normal water changing routing, and continue for up to another week if necessary. Also Quick Cure and Fungus Clear are very good broad spectrum antibiotics for your fish. Quick Cure clears up ick in as little as 48 hrs., and Fungus Clear is useful for a variety of diseases including ick, velvet, and fungus and is good for treating an entire tank of fish instead of an individual as 1 tablet treats 10 US gallons, where as quick Cure is meant for smaller tanks at 1 drop per gallon. Hope this helps, and good luck in the future.

 

[liz2]

Sorry about your fish....it sounds like you didnt do anything really bad....so dont cut yourselves up about it.....

 

[WILDER]

Melafix is only good on cuts and wound and nothing else.

WRITTEN BY LEEBCA.

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It was the end of my third day at InterZoo 2006 in Nuremberg, GERMANY. Part of my objective for going there was to obtain information regarding fish medications.

I had the opportunity to speak with people in the (large and impressive) Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc. (API) booth. I had a long conversation with their Research Project Manager, including new medication packaging, fish medications in general, and some interesting specifics about Melafix and Pimafix.

API makes and packages Melafix and Pimafix. They come in 'industrial strength' and 'regular strength' concentrations. I've used both in my evaluations.

I asked why there was inconsistent results between users and indeed, even in my own applications of these products. These chemicals are 'natural' organic compounds derived from plants.

I was told that it was quite simple. . .These products (Melafix and Pimafix) only kill some kinds of bacteria. I asked if he meant gram negative or positive and the answer was, "No." What he meant was that, irrespective of gram stain results, the bacteria that is thwarted by these products is a finite group (which is mostly unknown).

They know, for instance, that Melafix wipes out mycobacterium and a few others. What about the other bacteria?

They don't know. One aquarist's fish could have a type of bacteria that Melafix will kill, and another aquarist will have bacteria it won't touch. So one aquarist may say, "It works!" and the other says "It doesn't work." Both can be right.

There is a small downside to their use, which shouldn't be cause for general concern, but nonetheless the aquarist should be on the lookout for this situation:

Both Melafix and Pimafix are organic compounds. The bacteria in the tank water (not necessarily the ones on the fish) these products don't kill, sometimes use the Melafix and Pimafix as food! This means that when you add these medications to a tank (especially a tank that has not been maintained well or one that hasn't had regular water changes) there is a small chance that a bacterial bloom will ensue and take up dissolved oxygen. This could mean that you could see, under such circumstances, your fish significantly increase their respiratory rate.

I was told an interesting tidbit. . .The above affect seems to be happening quite often in Italy and API hasn't been able to figure out why, yet.

The fish may seem to be desperately trying to get oxygen and, in effect, they are. This will of course be adding a significant stress factor to an already stressed, sick fish. If the aquarist has any doubt or concern about this, perform an oxygen test before and during the treatment for monitoring purposes.

API has not done much work at trying to figure out all the bacteria that these two compounds are effective against. They don't seem to want to go much further with it. Since aquarists don't know the exact bacteria that is infecting their fish, it might be a moot point whether it was of value knowing what bacteria it was good for, anyway. It IS selling to aquarists!

However, in the professional arena (public and private aquariums, for instance) where scrapings and identification of infections are performed, not knowing whether Melafix and/or Pimafix will treat the bacteria isn't worth the risk. You'll find they don't use these medications.

The concern with an aquarist using these products is that it might not work. When that happens, the bacteria causing the problem can continue to multiply and adversely affect the fish. Most fish should be able to survive a 'mis-treatment' if they are well fed with the proper nutrition.

In such a case where Melafix and/or Pimafix can't kill that particular bacteria, the fish suffers longer by not having been given a successful treatment. Usually, the fish should not expire by this lost time IF the fish is given the correct antibiotic treatment immediately after a failed Melafix/Pimafix treatment.

But if the infection has progressed significantly and/or it has become systemic and/or the fish has stopped eating, I'd still suggest a known likely effects of an antibiotic over the chance that Melafix or Pimafix might work. Under these circumstances, the wrong choice of medication could mean the fish will expire because it couldn't hold out any longer for the effective medication.

Is Melafix and Pimafix reef safe? Yes -- up to a point. I was told that in its proper final reef-tank concentrations, some corals may retract during the treatment period. This doesn't mean the corals are dead. It usually means they have become irritated by this chemical's presence. So far, I have been assured by API that when this occurs, the coral will survive the treatment and come out again after the treatment, without harm. API knew/knows of no other reef concerns. But, like the bacteria issue, API hasn't tested the product on a wide spectrum of corals, invertebrates, and marine life.

The bottom line is that no aquarist should leap to the conclusion that Melafix and/or Pimafix will or won't cure the fish. No one should promote its use NOR dissuade someone from using them. All anyone can say is that it did or didn't work for them AND they should direct the inquirer to this post so that the aquarist can make up their own mind whether to try it or not.

This post provides current facts of Melafix and Pimafix's sometimes successful use, from the manufacturer's knowledge and experience, so that the aquarist can make an informed decision. Let's try to be level headed. Inquiring aquarists want to know!

Even an aquarist who has had success with the product might find that the next time their fish is infected, the product won't work. This would mean that this next infection was of the bacteria that Melafix and Pimafix can't kill or failed to kill during the last treatment. Regarding this possibility, keep in mind that if it was successfully used once, the bacteria it kills are gone and only 'the other ones' are hanging around. So it would make sense that the next time, there might be a lesser chance of it working.

I asked if there might be strains resistant to the products and so far none have been reported to API. If it is the type of bacteria that it kills, it will kill it. If it not the kind of bacteria it kills, it will leave it alone (or rarely, provide food for the bacteria to live on and further multiply).

I hope this helps those who wonder if Melafix and/or Pimafix will work!