Avoiding Nitrate Shock

[Kaidonni]

I've got a promising offer on the rehoming front for the Clown Loach, however my tank's nitrate readings are in the 40-80ppm range (at least) according to my API test kit. The person who might be able to offer him a much better home has a tank with nitrates close to 0ppm. How can I avoid nitrate shock if I go with this person's offer? How can I mitigate it if I can't completely avoid it, as there are no guarantees that I'll ever have an offer where the recipient's tank has nitrates even close to 40ppm? My tap water might pose part of the problem - it registers in the 30-40ppm range as best I can tell, or it did a week or so ago when I last tested it (and it did before, late last year). I could opt for RO water changes prior to the rehoming to acclimate him before he leaves the tank, if that is feasible or advisable, but are there any issues to watch out for there if I choose to do that?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

A few comments-
 
1. I am not aware of such a thing as nitrate shock.
2. Conductivity/TDS are more important than nitrate which is just one thing that contributes to these and they would be involved in the potential for osmotic stres/shock.
3. The nitrate tests in the hobby are highly inaccurate. So the best you can do is assume you have nitrates above 20 and probably under 100. Where in that range I would not bet. And the tests are least accurate between 0 and 20 ppm. So the new tank may or may not have 0 nitrate.
4. If one has little or no nitrate in their tap water. and gets a build up to 20-30 ppm between weekly water changes, a 50% wc would drop nitrates by 10-15 ppm. We do not hear many reports about clown's dropping dead or having problems after water changes. The "cleaner" their water, the better.
 
The closest I can come to finding science on nitrates and clown loaches is in a 2014 US patent for a breeding and rearing system for them.
 

1.2. Results
They are illustrated in FIGS. 1-3.
After the fish had been raised for 20 months the main physicochemical parameters of the water in the husbandry units were still below toxic standard levels for C. macracanthus spawners; pH was between 7.1-7.7; conductivity varied between 114-294 μS/cm, and the measured oxygen concentration showed little variation (6.7-8.1 mg·L−1). The non ionized ammonia content was between 0.0-0.1 mg·L−1, whereas concentrations vary between 0.00-0.03 mg·L−1 for nitrites, and between 6.3-20.0 mg·L−1 for nitrates.

from Method for the mass production of Chromobotia macracanthus US 8701596 B2 http/www.google.com/patents/US8701596
 
1 mg-L−1 = 1 ppm.
 
So the fish are spawning and being raised in above 0 nitrate

 

[eaglesaquarium]

That variation of nitrate difference shouldn't be a huge difference for the fish.  
 
 
One possibility to help would be a few massive water changes with your tap water, which would bring your nitrates very close to the tap levels (40ppm).
 
 
RO is NOT advisable (at least not by itself) because the fish do require other minerals in the water.
 
 
The big question is what are the other water parameters of this new tank for the fish that you will be transferring the fish to?  
 
 
 
One other possibility would be to bring some water from the new tank, and use that as the water for the water change in the old tank, and that would help to bring the parameters of the current water closer to the parameters of the new water the fish will be moving in to. 
 
 
Not sure how feasible that would be... but that would be the most logical solution to truly ensure that the fish doesn't suffer from any shock, moving to the new tank.    Slowly allowing it to acclimate to the new water.
 
 
If that's a possibility, I'd suggest:  
1 - a massive water change on your tank - 75-90%.  That would bring the water close to the level of your tap, closer to 40ppm nitrate than 80ppm.
2 - then wait a week as the fish adapts to the new water.
3 - then do as large a water change as you can with the new water... 50% being ideal.
4 - then wait a week as the fish adapts to the new water.
5 - transfer the fish to the new tank - after floating to get it temp matched, of course.

I am using the nitrate as a way of recognizing that the waters are different...  Potentially, your water may be very different, and the nitrates being brought closer by transferring his water to yours will also make his water closer to yours in ALL parameters...

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I personally do not think you need to worry about any of this unless you want to be testing at least GH and preferably conductivity or TDS of your and the new water. If these are not grossly different, I would just move the fish to its new home without all the above water changes.
 
Let me try to explain it this way. Lets say we are not talking about nitrite but rather ammonia. Now we know this stuff is bad for fish. Well nitrate is the far end of the nitrogen cycle before denitrifcation. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all bad for fish but not equally. Ammonia and nitrite are much more toxic. The become less of a threat as the Nitrogen (N) moves from ammonia (NH3and NH4) to nitrite (NO2) to nitrate (NO3).
 
Now ask yourself, what do we do when a fish is in water with ammonia or nitrite. Do you worry about ammonia levels being dropped quickly? How about nitrite? Most do big water changes to bring down the levels. But you are worrying about nitrate, the least potentially damaging of the nitrogen trio.
 
Next, we all know that most tanks, even many with plants, have a build up in nitrate levels between weekly water changes. And then many folks do a 50% change which lowers nitrates by some %, often over 50%.
 
There is no way you can harm a fish simply by lowering the levels of the nitrogen trio.
 
And to stave off comments about old tank syndrome. The change in conditions there is way more ubiquotous in what it effects and make it a completely different situation when all parameters are involved. I am not even sure you can lower nitrate in such a tank and not change anything else in the process.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I agree TTA.   I don't think this is an OTS situation.  Besides, one of the issues with OTS is not the nitrate, but the rest of the other things that we don't generally test for... specifically the TDS.  
 
 
Fish don't like that.  
 
I asked about the other parameters for the new tank, so that any issues can be foreseen.  What's the pH, gH, kH, and TDS of the new tank?  The nitrate isn't really an issue, as I see it.

 

[Byron]

I agree with what has been said, that a lowering of nitrate is not going to cause issues for the fish.  Also that the other factors (GH, pH and TDS) are more significant, and the aquarist acquiring your fish should be aware of the acclimation method, and test results for these properties.
 
My concern here is your nitrate level of 30-40 ppm.  This is not safe for any fish.  I am not going to spend time on this again, but just post a link which has a fairly balanced view on the effects of nitrate.  It cites studies (these are not many, yet) and reaches obvious conclusions.
http/www.oscarfish.com/article-home/water/79-is-nitrate-toxic-a-study-of-nitrate-toxicity.html
 
To this, I would mention that Dr. Neale Monks regularly advises aquarists to keep nitrates below 20 ppm, preferably below 10 ppm, and he says there is very loikely an impact on fish at higher levels.
 
And last, the EPA advises that nitrate above 10 ppm is harmful to humans and should not be consumed as drinking water.  
http/water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/basicinformation/nitrate.cfm
 
Most of us know that safe levels for humans is often well above the danger level for fish (take copper for instance).  So if 10 ppm nitrate in drinking water is dangerous for humans, it seems logical that levels above 20 ppm are likely to have issues for fish who are much closer to the water in terms of their physiology.
 
High nitrate in the source water should never be above 10 ppm, unless one has a private well, and in that case I would do something to deal with it for myself as well as the fish.  Nitrate above 20 ppm should never occur within the aquarium, as there are methods to easily prevent this.
 
Byron.

 

[Kaidonni]

I'll conduct some tests on my tap water tomorrow to be completely sure, but if they are 30-40ppm at the moment, I'm not sure what I can do about that. We don't have a private well, so if it is well above 10ppm, I might have something to gripe about to the water company.
 
It'd take a lot to lower the levels in the tank with my tap water in that state. RO has not been advised by itself, but even combined with the tap water it might take some work, and I'd need to use it everytime almost even after the levels had been lowered to more acceptable standards. Would I be better off looking into denitrifying filter media to assist rather than solely at the water changes and RO?
 
As for kH and gH, I'll have to get a kit to test for those and start asking about it from people I'm considering for the rehoming. What is a reliable [enough] TDS kit to buy?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Ask your LFS to test for kH and gH.  Much cheaper.   These values won't really change much over time for your tap.

 

[Kaidonni]

So, skip the self-testing and take tank water samples for kH and gH?

 

[Byron]

On the GH, you can ascertain this from your municipal water supply, probably on their website.  Same for KH.  Unless you are specifically targeting these in the aquarium, they are not going to change much from the tap water.  I'm assuming you are not using RO in the aquarium, but if you are, this would obviously change (lower) the GH and KH and pH, and similarly, having calcareous substances would raise these.  You might also find the TDS there.  I agree with JD to not get kits for these, as again they are not going to change much unless you intend altering the water.  You should have a pH test kit, this is a handy test to do from time to time.  If you do go to a store for the GH or pH [I doubt they would do TDS tests, but they might if really good] make sure they give you the numbers, not vague terms; write them down so we will be certain..
 
On the nitrates, this too you should see on the water supply website.  I believe it is legally required in the US, and Canada, not sure of other countries and I don't know where you are.  A nitrate test kit is another useful one to have on hand.  Nitrate and pH changes from the "norm" in an established tank are usually warning signs of trouble.
 
It is always wise to fully test your source water (tap or well) or find out from the municipal water authority, before even setting up an aquarium.  Water is much more critical for the fish who live in it than air is for terrestrial animals, and it is best to know from the start what you have available.
 
Byron.

 

[Kaidonni]

I live in the UK. According to the website for my local water supplier, South Staffordshire Water, and the 2013 report, nitrates are between 19.3ppm-33ppm in my area, and gH is 159.2ppm, 11.1/15.9/8.9 degrees (Clark/French/German...don't know which is most applicable). Testing by myself, pH is usually ~7 from the tap and 7.4-7.5 in the tank.
 
The nitrates are rather high, then...
 
Wouldn't the tds of my tank - given the unique circumstances - be potentially very different to any possible new home for the Clown Loach? Any reliable method/kit for testing from the tank as opposed to the water?

 

[Byron]

I live in the UK. According to the website for my local water supplier, South Staffordshire Water, and the 2013 report, nitrates are between 19.3ppm-33ppm in my area, and gH is 159.2ppm, 11.1/15.9/8.9 degrees (Clark/French/German...don't know which is most applicable). Testing by myself, pH is usually ~7 from the tap and 7.4-7.5 in the tank.
 
The nitrates are rather high, then...
 
Wouldn't the tds of my tank - given the unique circumstances - be potentially very different to any possible new home for the Clown Loach? Any reliable method/kit for testing from the tank as opposed to the water?

 
I would not want nitrate that high, even for my drinking water.  Allowable levels in the UK may differ from what is allowed in NA.
 
Your GH is actually ideal for a great many fish, and live plants.  Soft water fish should have no issues.  I keep my three largest tanks around 5 to 6 dGH (your water is close to 9 dGH which is fine).
 
The pH...when testing tap water pH, you need to outgas the CO2 or the reading may be inaccurate.  I am suspecting that here, since it is a tad higher in the tank.  You can outgas tap water by letting it sit for 24 hours, or briskly shaking it for a few minutes.
 
As for TDS, yes, these will naturally increase in a tank with fish from what is in the source water.  Every thing we add to the aquarium increases the TDS somewhat, from water conditioners, plant fertilizers, any other water additives and many medications, and of course fish food.  And the more fish in the tank, the more TDS.  This is one reason why partial water changes are so essential for healthy fish; without changing sufficient water, the TSD just keep building.
 
The acclimation of new fish to the home aquarium is often thought to be necessary to avoid pH shock, but in fact it is more often TDS shock that is the issue.  As you can appreciate from the foregoing paragraph, the water in the fish store tank is likely going to be loaded with TDS, unless they do major water changes (some do).  With overcrowded fish tanks (a temporary situation but still relevant) the water in the bag with be higher than your aquarium, and acclimation gets the fish adjusted.  The GH and pH and temperature also factor in of course.
 
You can buy TDS testing devices in places like home improvement stores, at least in NA.  I have never bothered with this, because I know my tap water is so low, and I do major weekly water changes and don't overstock my tanks.  I may get one though, just to see.
 
Byron.

 

[Kaidonni]

When I used to leave my bucket for a whole 24 hours (or thereabouts), I did a test from that water and it read at around pH 7.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Just a quick note here- the 10 ppm birtrate guideline by the EPA is Nitritate-Nitrogen. Most scientific information normally use the nitrogen scale for quantifying ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. However, most of the test kits in the hobby use the total ion scale. Both scales are legitmate but they are like miles vs kilometers of F vs C for temperature.
 
There are conversion rates for these scales. The one for nitrate require that we multiply the nitrogen reading by 4.4 to get the equivalent total ion reading. So when the EPA states the guideline for nitrate, it would be 44 ppm on the total ion scale.
 
It is not really responsible science to give levels for ammonia, nitrite or nitrate without indicating which scale. Normally the use of the nitrogen scale will be indicated bu the actual word -nitrogen or a -N in the number description. Also, I believe the EPA use the mg/L reading (which is almost identical to 1 ppm). So 1 mg/L NO3-N = 4.4 ppm NO3.
 
It is a normal assumption to assume if its an hobby test kit it reads in total ions and if it is a scientific instrument, it reads in nitrogen ions. There are some ammonia tests in the hobby that read only NH3 but this is still on the total ion scale. The SeaChem ammonia test kit states in the directions: "The values reported by this kit are expressed as ammonia, not nitrogen. To convert to nitrogen multiply by 0.82. Ammonia."
 
And while there is not a lot of research on nitrate and aquatic species, there is some. And it does not all concur is what levels may or may not be harmful.
 
Acute and chronic toxicity of nitrate to fathead minnows (Pimephales promelas), ceriodaphnia dubia, and Daphnia magna

1. George Scott and
2. Ronald L. Crunkilton*

Article first published online: 2 NOV 2009
DOI: 10.1002/etc.5620191211
 

Abstract
Increasing concentrations of nitrate in surface water and groundwater are becoming a worldwide concern, yet little information has been published on toxicity of nitrate to common organisms used for toxicity testing. The acute and chronic toxicity of nitrate (NO3-N) to Ceriodaphnia dubia, Daphnia magna, and Pimephales promelas was investigated in 48-h to 17-d laboratory exposures. The 48-h median lethal concentration (LC50) of nitrate to C. dubia and D. magna neonates was 374 mg/L NO3-N and 462 mg/L NO3-N. The no-observed-effect concentration (NOEC) and the lowest-observed-effect concentration (LOEC) for neonate production in C. dubia were 21.3 and 42.6 mg/L NO3-N, respectively. The NOEC and LOEC values for neonate production in D. magna were 358 and 717 mg/L NO3-N, respectively. The 96-h LC50 for larval fathead minnows (P. promelas) was 1, 341 mg/L NO3-N. The NOEC and LOEC for 7-d larval and 11-d embryo-larval growth tests were 358 and 717 mg/L NO3-N, respectively. Additional exposure of breeding P. promelas and their fertilized eggs to nitrate did not increase susceptibility further

from http/onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/etc.5620191211/abstract;jsessionid=C382FC822428F8B6679F7312DF613CF8.f04t01?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
 
Those NOEC and LOEC concentrations for the D. magna and larval minnows on and API kit would be 1,575 ppm and 3,155 ppm.
 

 

[Kaidonni]

Would I benefit from using anything like Seachem Matrix or Purigen in assisting with the removal of nitrates, given the parameters of my tap water? I use two foam pads (long-term) and one polyester pad (replaced every two weeks, rotated around each week so both ends get used) in the filter, not sure if it's safe to add anything else in there, and if it is, how much to add (Seachem do provide instructions on their site, but you know me - I ask myself if am I going to screw something up, such as the flow, and mess things up even further?) and where in the filter? There are spaces at the top and bottom after placing the polyester pad in the middle, so this might be the ideal location (but this is also where some muck flows through and gets caught in the foam pads).