Are we pampering our fish?

[Phantom Thief]

Now, i was thinking while i was gone. Have we underestimated the toughness of fish? Weekly water changes, varied diet, extended cycle period, is all of that necessary?

Just wanna get your opinions, because mine have become warped while i was gone.

P.T.

 

[White Whale]

If you don't take care of your fish, who will? They've been taken out of their natural habitat and placed into an artificial environment which is at our absolute control. And in this artificial environment we are to take the place of nature (which has worked non-stop since the beginning of time), providing proper climate and sustainance for them.

 

[Phantom Thief]

Precisely.

The question is, what is the definition of 'proper climate and sustainance'? Have we taken things too far? There should be a logical limit somewhere.

P.T.

 

[Bryan]

My first tanks were both 40 gallon. I just put sand in them, added water, planted the plants, waited a week then added all the fish. Changed maybe 5 gallons of water a month, ran filters on the back of the tank and always put clean filter pads in (no chance for bacteria ever grow), and only fed them flakes. Had neons, white clouds, harliquins, black neons, newts, kuhli loaches and horse face loaches & maybe a few others. NEVER had ANY die .
That was 20 years ago
I started getting into fish again, and I've been through 2 set ups now where the fish and plants keep dieing. My bet is I was lucky before, I'm thinking all that stuff is necessary along with regular level checks of nitrite, nitrate, amonia, PH, alkaline and, well, I'm new here , I think there's more.

 

[Bryan]

If you don't take care of your fish, who will? They've been taken out of their natural habitat and placed into an artificial environment which is at our absolute control. And in this artificial environment we are to take the place of nature (which has worked non-stop since the beginning of time), providing proper climate and sustainance for them.

Wow, I realy like what you said

 

[Discomafia]

I think we give our fish friends less credit then they get. They aren't always the fragile, sensitive creatures we make them out to be. Most of the time. What I mean by this is that in the past I have made serious fishkeeping errors but my fish have come out none the worse. Not saying you shouldn't change their water and keep an eye on params. and all that, all I'm saying is that they can tolerate mistakes, to a certain extent of course.

 

[Phantom Thief]

That's pretty much what i was thinking myself, Mr. Mafia

We take them as wimps, what if they are tougher than they look

In fact, it's not 'what if', i'm pretty sure they deserve a better reputation.

P.T.

 

[mwm]

Most fish are tough

 

[Discomafia]

That's pretty much what i was thinking myself, Mr. Mafia

We take them as wimps, what if they are tougher than they look

In fact, it's not 'what if', i'm pretty sure they deserve a better reputation.

P.T.

Long time no see kawan, how's it going?

I think that as long as we take care of the basics like water, which in always my number 1 concern, and proper tank settings and all that, the fish will survive.

Read my post in this thread, which is in part about how fish can survive if not kept in the most best of conditions.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=66471

But survival doesn't equal comfort, and while you can get away with keeping an oscar in a 20 gallon, I don't think the fish is going to like it.

 

[panboy]

I think that people keep up so much with water change and stuff is for the couple weak fish that they might have (if they do).... i dunno if that makes sense.

im just making it all up to explain myself, so it may not be all accurate info, but it gets the point across.
For example, pretend we are in the wild and we see fish laying eggs. they lay 200 eggs and lets say only 50 make it to being fry. well in the wild, i highly doubt that those 50 will survive, some wil lget eaten and some will just die because they arent tough enough.

I think the ones tha aren't touch enough SOMETIMES make it into our aquariums and may survive. but they may die, not because the aquarium wasnt taken care of, but because it was just the weak one.

so we think that we didnt take care of our aquariums enough and increase water changes.

understand? i hope its not to confusing... well tahts what i think

 

[Phantom Thief]

Basically, it's not our fault, but the fish's fault? I know that summary makes it sounds bad, but that's the gist of it, isn't it?

P.T.

 

[enchanted]

We treat our fish like gods, so what? I treat the other pets I have had in my life like gods also? Does that make us bad owners? No, it tends to make the pets think of us as gods and worship us.

Personally, I know better than having to do water changes, etc... because I grew up around multiple tanks that never recieved anywhere near the care I have given.

But I also know that if the care is not taken all it takes is one little thing and boom, everybody is dead and the whole tank is done.

And yes, fish are tough and many people have the wrong ideas about many fish being "weak" or sensitive.

In fact I just had some people who raise/breed Discus over on simplydiscus tell me that I could breed discus in 7.6 GH 120....

So, my personal feelings are yes, fish are tough, yes we do more than we have to in order to ensure their survival, but we do what we can because we care about our little friends. And we did take them from their homes so we should try to recreate it for them.

 

[Angry_Platy]

I have found that the more I worry and fuss over my fish the more likely they are to get sick and die....

That said, I do water changes weekly, inspect my fish daily for any problems, check ammo/nitrate and nitrite weekly, check the heaters, change filter media....

But I don't stress anymore....fish are happy and healthy (aside from two new guppies that just died)....l

 

[Discomafia]

No I think what I'm trying to get across is that if you miss that once a week 25% water change once, it's not like you're fish are going to die and all that... It's not like I'm asking you to go and try this out with yoru fish or something, but fish (and other animals sometimes) are being kept at worse conditions at many lfs (and sometimes even by inexperienced hobbyist) all around the place, yet they still survive.

They're many posts even here in this forum that I've read that only showcases what I'm talking about. Not that I'm pointing fingers or anything, I've been there myself. I once kept 4 neon tetras in a 1 gallon UGF filtered tank for 2 weeks when I first started out. Classic noob mistake. But they survived, didn't they? They might not be thriving, but they're surviving. That's my point.

 

[Discomafia]

I think that people keep up so much with water change and stuff is for the couple weak fish that they might have (if they do).... i dunno if that makes sense.

im just making it all up to explain myself, so it may not be all accurate info, but it gets the point across.
For example, pretend we are in the wild and we see fish laying eggs. they lay 200 eggs and lets say only 50 make it to being fry. well in the wild, i highly doubt that those 50 will survive, some wil lget eaten and some will just die because they arent tough enough.

I think the ones tha aren't touch enough SOMETIMES make it into our aquariums and may survive. but they may die, not because the aquarium wasnt taken care of, but because it was just the weak one.

so we think that we didnt take care of our aquariums enough and increase water changes.

understand? i hope its not to confusing... well tahts what i think

I know what you're getting at here. We're messing up with survial of the fitness, because we giving fish that usually don't have a chance at surviving in the wild, a very good chance compared to the numbers when people breed them. That's not my point. Neither is it about giving those that didn't have a chance of surviving in the wild a chance in our aquariums, and it dying is not because of the tank's problem, it was because the fish was weak in the first place.


Hehehe. JUST noticed the thread's full topic. No fighting please... What were you expecting to happen PT?