Anyone Got Any Ideas?

[DiscusKeeper403]

I have had two Discus stop eating lately. I kept them in the tank, but separated them with a divider. I actually had to put one to sleep today with clove oil and cold water, because it was lying on the bottom sideways

I had been treating the tank with Polyguard, because it treats a huge spectrum of fish disease and I had no clue what had caused two of my fish to stop eating. All the others still have a healthy appetite.

I still have one sick fish. For a period it looked as if one fish had Ich, another almost looked like it had Velvet. I haven't noticed it anymore. The temperature was at 28C but I turned it back up to 30C. Water stats are fine.

I am at a loss. I really am. I have no clue whats wrong with the non eating fish, as it is showing no external signs of disease.

Think I will try some Praziquantal. Does anyone have any ideas as to what this mysterious illness could be? My only problem is that the other fish are showing no signs of illness...

 

[Jim Curtis]

DL. I thought you knew your stuff? I've been preached to about over medicating for the last 2 months in my thread and I never gave them anything. Prazi is for tapeworms and gill flukes. Fish with tapeworms still eat and fish with flukes only have one gill working.

I had a fish laying on the bottom sideways 2 weeks ago and now he is doing fine.

They wont even take bloodworms?

Polyguard dosent treat viral infections. Why you dont you try an antibiotic? It could also be that they are not eating because you just seperated them and they havnt adjusted yet to that change.

Just my 2 cents.

How many fish do you have in what size tank? I assume its barebottom?

And why didnt you QT?

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

DL. I thought you knew your stuff? I've been preached to about over medicating for the last 2 months in my thread and I never gave them anything. Prazi is for tapeworms and gill flukes. Fish with tapeworms still eat and fish with flukes only have one gill working.

I had a fish laying on the bottom sideways 2 weeks ago and now he is doing fine.

They wont even take bloodworms?

Polyguard dosent treat viral infections. Why you dont you try an antibiotic? It could also be that they are not eating because you just seperated them and they havnt adjusted yet to that change.

Just my 2 cents.

How many fish do you have in what size tank? I assume its barebottom?

And why didnt you QT?

I do know my stuff just at a loss as to what to do. Don't think you understood my post, maybe my fault.

Prazi has a pretty big kill spectrum. It is good for all sorts of internal parasites, not so much gill flukes though. IMO I'm am pretty sure if wouldn't eat with tape worms, but that's beyond the point and Prazi treats more then that anyways.

You see two fish were sick, the one fish I could tell didn't have a chance in making it, so I thought i'd put it out of it's misery (he was on his side at the bottom barely breathing and couldn't move.) One fish that still isn't eating, has been quarantined (in a section of the tank) for a while. I thought that maybe aggression from the other fish had caused him not to eat but he hasn't got better being quarantined. The fish weren't eating before I quarantined them hence the reason why I did it. It has been a week since doing it and no results. It had looked like one of my fish was getting Ick (one that was still eating), but at 28C that's pretty much impossible and it doesn't look like he has it anymore. I know the sick fish has gotten HITH, because of the lack of nutrients in his body,

You are correct, Polyguard doesn't treat viral disease, but neither does Antibiotics. Antibiotics treat bacterial diseases.

The remaining sick fish will not take anything. I have tried Blood worms and at best he swims to them and stares.


It really is a mystery. I just don't get why the two fish weren't eating and the other three have huge and regular appetites. I did a 50% w/c and added some Nox Ich. If I do not see results in a weeks time I am going to take the sick fish to the vet and get them to draw some blood to look at under a microscope.

I know you want to be careful adding medication when it is not needed, maybe I jumped the gun a bit but this fish that's still alive hasn't eaten in at least three weeks and his color is just terrible. He is a Red Melon but is almost completely white, so I can tell something is up.

 

[Jim Curtis]

"Polyguard doesn't treat viral disease, but neither does Antibiotics. Antibiotics treat bacterial diseases."

Weak, I ment to say Antivirals.

Tank divider dosent equal qt. If it is viral or bacterial you still risk spreading it. A 15 gallon tank and a cheap power filter cost less than one discus. Weaker, stressed fish will show signs before the stronger ones.

You know im no expert but im just throwing out what I know.

Im sure somebody at Simply will have an idea.

Also, Prazi treats external parasites which you would be aware of. Your fish would be flicking and rubbing and sometimes you can even see them. I dont think Prazi is what you want, also its expensive and takes 5 days to treat. I think dosing that before somebody at simply replies would be a mistake. The only internal parasite its effective on is tapeworms and you would see them in the poo.

You want Metro for internal parasites.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

"Polyguard doesn't treat viral disease, but neither does Antibiotics. Antibiotics treat bacterial diseases."

Weak, I ment to say Antivirals.

Tank divider dosent equal qt. If it is viral or bacterial you still risk spreading it. A 15 gallon tank and a cheap power filter cost less than one discus. Weaker, stressed fish will show signs before the stronger ones.

You know im no expert but im just throwing out what I know.

Im sure somebody at Simply will have an idea.

Also, Prazi treats external parasites which you would be aware of. Your fish would be flicking and rubbing and sometimes you can even see them. I dont think Prazi is what you want, also its expensive and takes 5 days to treat. I think dosing that before somebody at simply replies would be a mistake. The only internal parasite its effective on is tapeworms and you would see them in the poo.

You want Metro for internal parasites.

Looked for something that treats viral infection, but can't find anything around my area. I might very possibly be viral.

That is true, I have a hospital tank but haven't got a the money to get a new heater for it, it broke. Got to wait until I get paid in a few days.

People at Simply have the same ideas as me but they really don't offer much help and IMO sometimes information is iffy. I have some Prazi laying around, but I haven't started using it yet. Prazi has a broad kill spectrum which includes:

Flukes
Tapeworms
Flatworms
Turbellarians

I know it also treats Capillaria (might be a worm in one of the families above though.)

A lot of people dose Prazi monthly just to de-worm their fish and make sure everything is fine. I doubt it would cause problems doing it, but still I'll hold off, try the Nox Ich, and if nothing seems better go to the vet so I can find out for sure whats in the tank.

 

[kev_kb]

Sorry I can't help much, but here's a few observations.

If only 2 fish are suspected sick I would remove them to another tank and treat there.
It's not a good idea to use meds when you don't know whats wrong. I appreciate this one can be difficult...
In the past I've had Discsus lay on there sides for a couple of days only to fully recover after a further two days. I suspect these had been fighting and crashed into something.. probably different from what your experiencing.
Keep up water changes and tank maintenance, ill Discus are very often a sign of poor water quality.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Sorry I can't help much, but here's a few observations.

If only 2 fish are suspected sick I would remove them to another tank and treat there.
It's not a good idea to use meds when you don't know whats wrong. I appreciate this one can be difficult...
In the past I've had Discsus lay on there sides for a couple of days only to fully recover after a further two days. I suspect these had been fighting and crashed into something.. probably different from what your experiencing.
Keep up water changes and tank maintenance, ill Discus are very often a sign of poor water quality.

Like I said I don't have a heater in my hospital tank at the moment so I cannot move the fish. This fish in question has been sick for a while and hasn't eaten so I am pretty sure he is on his last leg. There is no way my water quality is poor. My water change regime is too strict and done at 30% every other day.

 

[kev_kb]

I should have also added that maybe you just had poor quality fish to start with. This is not meant as an insult or anything... But it's very important to buy high quality Discus. Maybe they had birth defects etc that you wouldn't be able to see...

 

[mike os]

you know how many viral diseases we can treat?..... you can count them on the fingers of one head.

Any new additions recently?

do you have a microscope, or know someone? a scrape is in order imo


you know how many viral diseases we can treat?..... you can count them on the fingers of one head.

Any new additions recently?

do you have a microscope, or know someone? a scrape is in order imo

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

you know how many viral diseases we can treat?..... you can count them on the fingers of one head.

Any new additions recently?

do you have a microscope, or know someone? a scrape is in order imo


you know how many viral diseases we can treat?..... you can count them on the fingers of one head.

Any new additions recently?

do you have a microscope, or know someone? a scrape is in order imo

Thanks for the reply. I understand we cannot treat very many viral disease, most just run their course.

I do not have a microscope, nor does anyone I know unfortunately, so hopefully a vet can do this for me.

 

[Jim Curtis]

Tubillerians and tapeworms are types of flatworms. Flukes are external. Thats all it treats. Use Metro if you suspect parasites. Flatworms wouldnt kill your discus its not to their benefit.

Prazi DOES NOT treat Capillaria. Recheck your sources on that. Capaillaria is a nematode. Prazi specifically states it does not effective against nematodes and to use Pancur or piperazine.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Tubillerians and tapeworms are types of flatworms. Flukes are external. Thats all it treats. Use Metro if you suspect parasites. Flatworms wouldnt kill your discus its not to their benefit.

Prazi DOES NOT treat Capillaria. Recheck your sources on that. Capaillaria is a nematode. Prazi specifically states it does not effective against nematodes and to use Pancur or piperazine.

My mistake I always thought Prazi treated Capillaria. I am not sure what to suspect, as it's only the one fish that is sick and no others. It has been like this for a while, like I said.

I guess you are correct that tapeworms are a type of flatworms, but aren't they in the class Cestoda? Or does Tubillerians make up Cestoda?

You are correct about the Metro, good for both Internal Bacterial and Parasitic diseases. Think I'll hold off on treating until I get the vet to do some tests...

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

So I was kind of hoping for a sign of why my Discus was sick, and today when I went to feed my fish in that tank one of the Discus with a healthy appetite had a huge stringy white bowl movement hanging from him. Good sign it's an internal parasite. I was thinking I would start a course of Metro? Jim, would you agree?

 

[Jim Curtis]

I dont know. There was actually a good post on BIDKA that showed pictures of different poos and what kind of parasite was responsible. Maybe go over there and compare your poo to the poo in the pics and then decide. It also perscribes which meds to use with which poos.

I love talking about poo.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Thanks for the help Jim. Couldn't find the article but I'll do a bit more looking later on tonight, it sounds very interested and helpful!