Another Question About Fishless Cycling

[stef_uk]

Yet another question from me and sorry its so long.

Ive been cycling for the last 12 days and all has been going well.

I got up this morning to find my Ammonia on 0,as it has been for the last couple of days,my Nitrites on 0 and my Nitrates Sky high.

I added bactinettes 2 days ago and took it that they'd kicked in and done their job.

I assumed my tank had cycled super fast due to the Bactinettes.I went ahead and did my water change this morning and tidied up the tank a little.

I added my new water,dechlorinated with Tetra Aquasafe and followed the dosage instructions of 5ml per 10 litres of water and did this in the bucket i was using.
All good and well or so i thought.My tank was crystal clear,everything looked the colour it should instead of being brown!

I went out and came back about 2 hours later and thought i would check the readings of the tank,just to make sure everything was as it should.

My Ammonia was 0,Ph was 6.6

But my nitrites were up somewhere between 2 and 5 and my Nitrates were up somewhere between 40 and 80 and this is AFTER a water change of about 80%.
I did another water change of about 25% but my ITES and ATES havent come down any that i can tell.

Is it possible that i overdosed the tank with dechlorinator and this has upset the balance of my tank?

 

[Underwurlde]

No, dechlor will have no effect.

Just be patient. You'll get there. Expect it to take a month or so from now.

 

[stef_uk]

So I take it that my tank wasn't fully cycled this morning then?

 

[mark.w.jones]

Agreed. You bactinettes has obviously interferred with your cycle somewhat. Leave it to run its natural course from now on with daily ammonia addition up to 5ppm and forget about any of these fancy products that claim to make it quicker or easier.

 

[stef_uk]

I thought it was a bit quick,but from what i'd read and been told elsewhere!!!

Just goes to show,its always best to stick with the proven methods!

 

[Underwurlde]

Yes indeed. I'm afraid with many of these 'cycle' products its a case of supply & demand. People don't wanna wait 2 months (nor do the LFS') so these 'snake oil' products are there to cater for the supply bit! Only one I've heard of that actually works (sometimes I hasten to add) is BioSpira. At 18 quid a bottle and his & miss results, I'd rather wait.

BTW, the best additive is actually free. Do you know anyone who has a mature tank. Are you frendly with your LFS?

Andy

 

[stef_uk]

I actually managed to get hold of a filter sponge from a friend.It was absolutely "filthy" and the water it was in looked like mud.I shoved that and poured the water into my external filter within the first couple of days and its still in there.

 

[stef_uk]

One other thing lol

Ive noticed with my nitrate test that when i empty the test tube afterwards theres a really strong "bad egg" smell.

Ive never noticed this before is this normal?

 

[rdd1952]

From my understanding, Bactinettes are supposed to be one of the products that actually works. I think it is the UK equivalent of Bio-Spira. I've never used either one though so I can't say for sure how they are. If the nitrite had dropped to 0 once, then the tank should be cycling (maybe not cycled yet). Just go back to adding ammonia when it drops and see how long it takes the nitrite to drop again. It shouldn't take long. Don't worry about doing the big water change until the day before you go get your fish. Since you will have to continue adding ammonia to keep the bacteria fed, they will just climb back up.

And I've never had any of my tests smell when I dumped them out. What type test kit are you using? Does the water in the tank smell?

 

[ziggyboy]

I'm new to cycling but I have done extensive research on the topic of cycling and specifically on the bacteria nitrosomonas and nitrobacter for the past week. Here's some info that might be useful to you:

* Nitrosomonas, the ammonia-eating bacteria, will double its numbers in roughly 8 hours.

* NItrobacter, the nitrite-eating bacteria, will double its numbers in roughly 20 hours.

* Nitrobacter is more sensitive than nitrosomonas...it will die faster without food and its ideal temp range is smaller. Nitrobacter even in bio-spira has a lower 'survival rate'.

* Nitrobacter will not grow when there is too much ammonia.

That said, it is natural for you to wait longer for your nitrites to reach 0 ppm. Also I have read that other products that claim to have nitrosomonas and nitrobacter DO have them, it's just that they're mostly dead when they get to you, especially nitrobacter. And since nitrobacter are a pain to culture it takes an additional 2 weeks to cycle...so it would seem useless. These other products would help, though not by much, by providing some nitrosomonas..which replicate faster. So technically these other products have the bacteria...if they didn't they would be liable to millions of $$$ in lawsuits wouldn't they (because they claim one thing in their products but don't actually have them)?

 

[rdd1952]

The time required for nitrosomonas to double is listed at anywhere from 7 hours (in absolute optimal conditions) to 24 to 30 hours. This site and this one are good sites on nitrification.

Quote from the first site:
"Nitrifying bacteria reproduce by binary division. Under optimal conditions, Nitrosomonas may double every 7 hours and Nitrobacter every 13 hours. More realistically, they will double every 15-20 hours. "

The second site states that nitrosomonas require 24 to 36 hours to double even in ideal laboratory conditions.

As for nitrobacter, it is no longer believed to be the bacteria that breaks down nitrite. They now believe it is nitrospira spp instead. In either case, they are still slower to multiply plus the fact that there will be way more nitrite to be processed in a cycling tank than there ever was ammonia.

When you are starting the fishless cycle, you add 5 ppm and wait on it to drop. Finally enough bacteria develops to process that and it drop to zero so you add 5 ppm more ammonia. Meanwhile there are very little or no bacteria to process the nitrite. As they are beginning to develop, the ammonia is being processed at a faster and faster pace until the tank can process 5 ppm of ammonia in 10 hours so you are adding it twice a day. All of that ammonia is becoming nitrite so you are technically adding nitrite as much as twice a day during the later stage of the process meaning that there must be an enormous amount of nitrite processing bacteria present to finally transform it all.

I understand what you are saying about the "bacteria in a bottle" produces having something in them to prevent them from being sued but the problem is that no one is going to go to the expense to prove that there isn't anything that benefits a tank. It would be almost impossible to do. Even if the bottle turned out to have just 1 bacteria of the correct genus, then their claim would technically be true. And 1 bacteria would take a very long time to multiply into the size colony required in an aquarium.

 

[ziggyboy]

Thanks for the links rdd. I have encountered nitrospira in my readings but not much articles on it to get any more info. Your points make sense, and we probably can't know for sure how long these bacteria multiple until someone with reputable experience in chemistry/biology or whatever verifies this.

 

[stef_uk]

And I've never had any of my tests smell when I dumped them out. What type test kit are you using? Does the water in the tank smell?

Im using the API Master Test Kit. Theres no smell to the tank water and before every test i use tap water to do base tests to make sure that the solutions are ok.