Another Newbie

[keeleyb]

Hi to all
thought I would introduce myself as I may be asking lots of panicky questions over the coming weeks.
Keeley, 40, dog and cat person thinking that maybe I should just be more assertive and say NO!

Brother in law (soon to be drowned in my tank!) bought my kids a Rena 30L tropical starter kit for christmas."Can I get the kids a fish tank for christmas?" he says "sure" I say, me thinking bowl of gold fish. Then after he buys it and gives it, he tells me that it needs a sturdy flat surface with easy access to the top, not near a window or radiator and needs a socket. Then I start to read the book, well chemistry never was my strong point and I have never kept fish, apart from a gold fish I won at the fair once when I was about 8 and it went mouldy and died.
So I (note I and not my kids, 6&10 just kept asking when can we get the fish) follow the instructions very carefully, I went to the nearest aquarium shop and bought tester kit and API stress coat and stress zyme (28 quid!) and began the process. After 3 weeks of water 'tampering and tweeking' we introduced 3 platys, 1 male 2 female as recommended by the shop.
Following the plan the shop gave me with the fish, last saturday was day 1, fish in and dose of stress zyme and stress coat, tuesday was day 4, 25% water change and half doses of treatment. friday will be day 7 repeat day 4. day 4 I had to change the filter block according to manufactures guidelines (3 week life span) and I was very gentle with the foam, dipping it the old tank water. I am doing daily tests because I am paranoid about nitrate and nitrite levels, each time I test I get the same result, could it be a dodgy batch?

nitrate 20-30
nitrite 0.5
ph 7.5
carbonate hardness 7
total hardness between 10 -18

when I change the water I have been using bottled water because I live in a really hard water area and also I can smell the chlorine in it on some days as well. How do I get a 0 nitrite reading, should I add another chemical to do that?
There are some plastic plants but also two live plants, the shop didnt tell me what they were, but someone has told me that although they are looking very lush they will die because they are just planted into a gravel base and need food, is there a liquid fertilizer that I can add that wont kill the fish or better still does anyone have advise on plants that will thrive in just a gravel bed?
Although the tank book says 15 fish I wanted to keep it to 6-8, we were going to get 3 guppies in a couple of weeks and then maybe a cory or other sucker fish, any suggestions would be greatly recieved. Having read all the posts about sick and dying fish I am thinking I may just stick to a couple more platys for the kids to enjoy, anyone got any good combinations. I feel completely out of my depth and worried sick about them dying. One of the platys (jade, named because she couldnt find her way out of the plastic fish bag! no offence to any members with that name)) is obviously preggers and so following advice given yesterday I have added hiding places for the fry and will probably just let nature take its course.
Have told brother in law vouchers next time please!
So anyway that is the state of play at the moment, it seems like a fascinating hobby but actually alot more complicated than I first thought, I am battling with the chemistry side and sitting here wondering how to hoover the bottom like it says in the book......should I use my dyson? only kidding!
thanks for listening!

keeleyx

 

[Miss Wiggle]

hiya and welcome to TFF

can i firstly say well done for trying to do the right thing, readng up and coming here to ask questions.... your obviously well on your way to being a good fishkeeper

firstly, you say you 'tinkered' with the tank for 3 weeks before getting fish... what exactly did you do? did anyone tell you about the nitrogen cycle?

next don't change the filter sponges, the manufacturers instructions to do it monthly are a complete con, the sponge is where your filter bacteria live and if you throw that way you throw your tank into chaos. I've filter sponges 5 years old and i'm not alone. only change them when they're falling apart and then you should only change half at a time giving it a good few weeks inbetween.

i suspect you are currently cycling with fish, if you read this post it should tell you more about water chemistry and what to do now.

to vac the bottom of the tank you need a siphon, you can do this at the same time as water changes. you basically just need any tube, like a piece of hosepipe but preferably a little bit thinner. you can buy them at your lfs but you'll also find you can make one from almost any tubing. you submerge the whole thing in water making sure the tube is completely full up, put your thumb over one end and keeping the other end under water take the end with your thumb and place it into a bucket, water will start to suck out of your tank, you just wave the siphon around over the substrate and it'll suck up the poop. tricky to explain but dead easy to do, you'll get the hang of it in no time!!

don't worry about more fish for now, get the water conditions under control and get into the routine of maintenance. then in a couple of weeks you can start to think about more fish and we'll help you with stocking. don't want to overload you with info now!

 

[leecara]

Hi Keeley

I have only been fish keeping since Novemebr last year, trust me, it takes a while to grasp, but once you understand the whole ammonia - nitrite - nitrate thing, iall the testing etc, becomes second nature.

I have a 20 gallon tank, and my kids only wanted 4 goldfish, but you can't put 4 goldfish in a bowl together (not enough space) so we ended up with a tropical tank,

We have had numerouse fish deaths, basically due to my lack of knowledge as I didn't read up like you did, and various nightmares since basically following advice from my LFS, the most recent one being that we added two plants that I think sent my nitrite souring as they died off very quickly, and my fish were screaming at me to get out, but 24 hours and 10 bucket changes later they are all doing fine. Only now they have reverted back to plastic plants, I have told them maybe for Christmas !!! they can have live ones.

This forum is the best thing I found, I had trouble with my LFS, and now I search for things on here and get the answers straight away, normally lots of different opinions so you can work out whats best for you !.

The guys are great and very funny, and even my 14 year old son ( who has decided he wants a marine tank in his room - not happening I can tell you ) reads the forum prior to school.

I found the vacuum thingy hard to get the hang of, if you buy from a shop, they have a larger end on one end and you pump it up and down in the water to get the water to syphon, then place the large end that is in the tank over the gravel, or slightly bury it and all the rubbish gets sucked up,

Sounds to me like everything you have done is right, keep going, I have found myself hooked on the hobby, but the dog is not impressed.

 

[keeleyb]

hiya and welcome to TFF

can i firstly say well done for trying to do the right thing, readng up and coming here to ask questions.... your obviously well on your way to being a good fishkeeper

firstly, you say you 'tinkered' with the tank for 3 weeks before getting fish... what exactly did you do? did anyone tell you about the nitrogen cycle?

next don't change the filter sponges, the manufacturers instructions to do it monthly are a complete con, the sponge is where your filter bacteria live and if you throw that way you throw your tank into chaos. I've filter sponges 5 years old and i'm not alone. only change them when they're falling apart and then you should only change half at a time giving it a good few weeks inbetween.

i suspect you are currently cycling with fish, if you read this post it should tell you more about water chemistry and what to do now.

to vac the bottom of the tank you need a siphon, you can do this at the same time as water changes. you basically just need any tube, like a piece of hosepipe but preferably a little bit thinner. you can buy them at your lfs but you'll also find you can make one from almost any tubing. you submerge the whole thing in water making sure the tube is completely full up, put your thumb over one end and keeping the other end under water take the end with your thumb and place it into a bucket, water will start to suck out of your tank, you just wave the siphon around over the substrate and it'll suck up the poop. tricky to explain but dead easy to do, you'll get the hang of it in no time!!

don't worry about more fish for now, get the water conditions under control and get into the routine of maintenance. then in a couple of weeks you can start to think about more fish and we'll help you with stocking. don't want to overload you with info now!

 

[keeleyb]

oops dont think I have got this reply lark right, oh well.

Thanks miss wiggle those links were really helpful.
Tinkered as in followed instructions on box, adding stress zyme/coat, water changes, added plants, basic really.
As for the filter, it came with the kit a rena filstar i1 and it was the crystal block that I changed. It says to change it every 3 weeks. The sponge, I was very gentle with and literally just dipped it in the bucket of old tank water to remove larger pieces of debris (there was some food bits in there and piece of leaf and some dead water fleas, cannot remember their name, the shop recommended them as a first feed).
Should I actually leave the sponge alone then for a while? Its very confusing as I was following instructions in the tank manual so basically the routine was a follows

sat 30th dec filled tank with tap water added plants (2 real)
added doses of stress zyme and coat
monitored temp and water quality for 3 weeks using Dennerle testing strips
when nitrite reading was 1 I changed 50% as recommended by the test kit leaflet

sat 20 jan added 3 platys 1 male 2 female
and am now following the regime given to me by the shop.
on tuesday gone (day 4) I carried out a 25% water change using bottled water changed the crystal block and dipped the sponge.

Now thinking about what I have read I should have left the sponge alone shouldnt I?
when you talk about mature mediam are you refering to a piece of sponge? because I know someone with a well established tank.

Anyway many thanks for your advice, this site is better than any manual you could buy, think I may chuck this rena guide!
Thanks again
keeleyx

 

[Underwurlde]

Your filter will have some white floss (possibly) - replace this weekly
A nitrate filter (green) - throw it away
A carbon (black) filter - throw it away
A blue? filter 'bio balls' - DONT THROW AWAY!!!! (When it get to the stage it is falling apart ASK how to replace it!!!!!)

Your stats appear fine to me!

Try to keep:

Nitrite below 1ppm. (2.5 worry, >5 panic)
Nitrate below 40ppm (>100ppm panic)

A mature filter should keep your levels of Ammonia & Nitrite in check - regular water changes (say 33% weekly) will also keep the levels in check along with Nitrate.
Get an Ammonia test kit.
Get chlorine & chloramine OUT of the water before / during a water change using some thing like Tetra Aqua Safe.

I think your tank may still be cycling....

That's all you need to do - keep a regular eye on things, change water if worried - regardless do a weekly water change. Cheap as well you'll note.

Andy

 

[keeleyb]

Hi nicole,

Fish dying is something I feel my kids will have to come to terms with, I have been reading some really sad postings from people who really try very hard to do everything right.

I think platys may be my limit!
Yesterday I realised that one was heavy pregnant, went into melt down, drove to lfs cried help and they sold me a plastic breeding unit, well if you'd have seen me trying to get her into it with minimum stress........I was more stressed than she was but after finally enticing her in with food she went demented, I turned off the light to calm her down but I could actually hear her bashing the plastic sides, it was far too upsetting so I let her out, now the male has spent the day chasing the other female all around the tank, so think more fry will be on the way.

do you think its possible to try too hard to keep these tropical fish? I keep thinking that I am going to come down and find them floating on the top.
I wish that I had found this site 4 weeks ago I may have used the tank for something else....a wormery maybe or filled it with cold water and got a gold fish!

keeleyx

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Hi nicole,

Fish dying is something I feel my kids will have to come to terms with, I have been reading some really sad postings from people who really try very hard to do everything right.

I think platys may be my limit!
Yesterday I realised that one was heavy pregnant, went into melt down, drove to lfs cried help and they sold me a plastic breeding unit, well if you'd have seen me trying to get her into it with minimum stress........I was more stressed than she was but after finally enticing her in with food she went demented, I turned off the light to calm her down but I could actually hear her bashing the plastic sides, it was far too upsetting so I let her out, now the male has spent the day chasing the other female all around the tank, so think more fry will be on the way.

do you think its possible to try too hard to keep these tropical fish? I keep thinking that I am going to come down and find them floating on the top.
I wish that I had found this site 4 weeks ago I may have used the tank for something else....a wormery maybe or filled it with cold water and got a gold fish!

keeleyx

don't panic keeley, i think your doing a really good job.

it's like any pet, you worry and panic at first cos you're not sure exactly what your doing, but as you get into a routine and things stabilise you'll find it's much easier and you'll stop panicking.

fish dying is something everyone has to face, i've been doing this 5 years and lost a fish this week, yes it's sad but it happens. Be prepared to deal with it but don't beat yourself up over it and panic all the time.

For the time being you should test every day for ammonia and nitrite, if you get a reading that's not 0 for either you should do a 20% water change, this will keep your levels down until the tank settles. In a week or so this will stop and your levels will get to normal.

I'd say you should then leave things at least a month, get into a routine with maintenance and things will settle, then when your feeling ready go and browse your lf for some new fish, don't buy anything but note down the names of things you like, come back here and post them up and we'll let you know some info about them and what's suitable for you.

remember the fish shops and manufacturers are all trying to make money from you, we're here in our own time giving advice for free. we've no reason to lie so you know you can trust us. we don't all know absolutely everything but between us there's not a lot of problems we can't resolve

 

[Joemuz]

Dont worry. I was a nervous wreck when i got my 1st tank last year and you will loose fish but thats all part of it.
When i loose a fish now its no big deal, i get a bit upset sometimes as most fish get characters. Just keep going and you will naturally get used to not worrying.
You wont worry much about it in a few months once you have been around it more and realised theres nowt to woory about. Do your best and you are doing fine. Good luck, Joemuz

 

[newtotropical]

Keeley,
Stop using botteled water! It will save you a fortune!!! You can use tap water BUT make sure you add aquasafe or equal This will make the water safe for your new friends!!

Plants will be fine in gravel. Just make sure you buy plants with roots on them. Remove pots and the wool round the roots and plant into the gravel. You can buy loads of differant treatments for plants. I only use Tetra stuff and they do a tablet that you break up and push into the gravel. Also make sure that any plants your looking at "flop over" when removed from the water. tghis shows that they are true aquatic plants. Lots of LFS will sell plants that arent and they will die!!

hope that all helps.