...another Amur Leopard Dead.

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Amur leopards, a russian big cat and the rarest big cat in the whole world are a dying species, with only around 24-33 of them now left in the wild they are going extinct. The other day an amur leopardess in the prime of her life was mindlessly and brutally killed, pushing this majestic and wonderful cat further to the brink of extinction;

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...rd-picture.html

Such a shame... :/ . I think this big cat will probably go extinct in the wild in our lifetimes, i wish it wouldn't and i wish there was more we could do, but there are so many ignorant and arrogant idiots in Russia and other parts of the world who'd rather have the skins and meat of these animals than assure this cats species future survival.

If only russia could do for the amur leopard what it did for the siberian tiger, which is now in much larger numbers than what it was in the 40's;

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...er-picture.html
 
Such a shame... . I think this big cat will probably go extinct in the wild in our lifetimes, i wish it wouldn't and i wish there was more we could do, but there are so many ignorant and arrogant idiots in Russia and other parts of the world who'd rather have the skins and meat of these animals than assure this cats species future survival.


Although I agree that animals going extinct is horrible. Calling poor people who do what they have to do to survive or to give their family a much better life stupid and ignorant and arrogant is not going to help anything. Think about if you were put in a situation where you were a very poor man and you life and income depended wholly on your livestock that you own and you see this big cat that was eyeing your livestock. What would you do? Do you place you and your family's life on a lower pedestals than a cats life? If an Amur Leopard attacked you for some reason, would you allow it to kill you so that the animal could go on living in the wild?

I'm all for helping animal numbers go up in the wild, but you must understand it all comes back to the very poor people who live in these areas. And I just think it is incredibly mean to be calling them ignorant and arrogant when you don't know a single thing about how these people live. All the man who killed this animal probably wanted was so that it wouldn't attack his livestock or something, and put his whole family at risk of being in even worse condition than they are.


I personally value my life much higher than that of a cat's, be it endangered or not.
 
Such a shame... . I think this big cat will probably go extinct in the wild in our lifetimes, i wish it wouldn't and i wish there was more we could do, but there are so many ignorant and arrogant idiots in Russia and other parts of the world who'd rather have the skins and meat of these animals than assure this cats species future survival.

Although I agree that animals going extinct is horrible. Calling poor people who do what they have to do to survive or to give their family a much better life stupid and ignorant and arrogant is not going to help anything. Think about if you were put in a situation where you were a very poor man and you life and income depended wholly on your livestock that you own and you see this big cat that was eyeing your livestock. What would you do? Do you place you and your family's life on a lower pedestals than a cats life? If an Amur Leopard attacked you for some reason, would you allow it to kill you so that the animal could go on living in the wild?

I'm all for helping animal numbers go up in the wild, but you must understand it all comes back to the very poor people who live in these areas. And I just think it is incredibly mean to be calling them ignorant and arrogant when you don't know a single thing about how these people live. All the man who killed this animal probably wanted was so that it wouldn't attack his livestock or something, and put his whole family at risk of being in even worse condition than they are.


I personally value my life much higher than that of a cat's, be it endangered or not.



The biggest threat to this cat is not being attacked by some poor rural farmers you are defending, the biggest threat to this cats survival is the russian fur and chinese medicine trade- surely you don't put people wanting its furs and meat above the cats survival? Oh hang on, people might get cold without the cats furs to wear and some chinese person won't get their medicince to make them perform better in bed etc :rolleyes: . I am not having a go at the poor- i am having a go at the "ignorant and arrogant idiots in Russia and other parts of the world who'd rather have the skins and meat of these animals", not people defending some peice of farmland.

And either way, this cat does not prefer to live in farm land, it is a forest and mountain dwelling cat, and in the absolutely puny numbers it barely survives in, it is hardly much of a threat to livestock in russia. Even in the scenario you gave, I don't put a cats life about a humans, but what about a whole species? Would you rather have someone live in poverty, who will probably always live in poverty regardless of the cats existance, or have the entire species go extinct because someone feared it might steal a sheep? Letting the cat fall into extinction will not make people living in poverty in Russia any better off.
But the fact of the matter is it isn't innocent farmers killing these cats that are the biggest threat, the amur leopards furs have always been highly prized in russia amoungst the rich and upperclass, and china also has a large demand for this cat in its traditional medicines too.

The excuse that it makes it ok to push an animal to extinction if you live in poverty just doesn't rub off on me. Orangutans are going extinct in the wild because people are cutting down the rainforests they live in and poaching the animals themselves, most of the people that cut these rainforests down and kill these animals for the bush meat trade live in poverty, would you put human beings above the future survival rainforests and orangutans?
I do feel sorry for people that live in poverty. But why should an entire species have to go extinct because it become's a nuisance to us or its death becomes profitable? These sorts of animals have taken millions upon millions of years to evolve, many have taken even longer to evolve and have also been around much longer than us. What right do we have to do undo millions of years work of irreplaceable evolution just because the animal doesn't happen to be something useful like a cow or a pig? If we let every person in poverty do whatever they want to become weathier, animals like mammals would go extinct every week, prostitution and crime will increase, polution to the world will become even more chokingly bad etc.
And with the farmer versus amur leopard scenario, i don't think it even has to exist. There are plenty of places in Africa for example where people/villages/farmers have learnt to live in harmony with animals like lions.

The whole reason why the amur leopard is going extinct in Russia is because Russia does not care about it as much as the siberian tiger- if russia really wanted to, it could save this cat like it did for the siberian tiger. The siberian tiger is well protected because it has acheived fame around the world and so russia looks after it for its image- if you ask anyone if they've heard of a siberian tiger before and where it comes from, chances are they'll be able to tell you. But you ask a random if they've heard of an amur leopard and where does it come from, chances are they'll be like "what leopard?".

edit: "Sigh"...IMHO Saying you value a humans life over an animals is fair enough. But on the other hand, it is not unlike saying "A human being is more important than any other living thing", which when you put it that way, doesn't sound right. I don't know what religion or philosophy you follow, but if we continue to say "We are superior to everything on this earth and any animal that gets in our way deserves to die if it doesn't get out of our way", then we might as well not give a cr*p about wildlife conservation at all if all we do is let entire species of animals go extinct just for the wellbeing of a couple of poachers or whatever.
And to be honest, although you might find it shocking, i don't put a humans life above an entire species of animals survival when the animal is at the brink of extinction or severly threatened, i would rather one person out of our massive worldwide population continue to live poverty and save an entire species of animals, then let an entire species of animals go extinct to let one person live an easier life.


edit: I'm just trying to get you understand where i coming from. If i was living in poverty in Russia, i would not take my blame out on the innocent amur leopards, i would take my blame out on the government as to the reason why i was living poverty.
When it comes down to it, the reason why these big cats are going extinct, is because of poorly defended wildlife reserves, the poaching of the leopards and their prey (which is a big factor in the amur leopards decline, many are starving to death, which then forces them to come down from the mountains and eat farm animals to survive, which inevitably ends up getting the leopards killed by angry farmers), deforestation, the demand for the leopards furs, and the demand for its other body products in China's medicine trade.
 
i am all for consevation, and what i think the should do to help keep the species numbers up, is capture a male, and taske some sperm and freeze it, and do a vetro fertiliztion on the closet species possible, and maybe they can bring the species back, be it a hybrid, or not.
 
Animals got extinct is a part of nature, even if it is human induced. We are part of nature too. I'm not saying by all means that things becoming extinct should be promoted and not cared about. We should help things not become extinct, but if they do, we can't do anything about it. A lot of things become extinct...because of natural selection.
 
I've got a picture of one that I took at our zoo! They are absolutely beautiful, it's a terrible thing to see these things being hunted at all.

I tried to upload the pic but it's saying it is too large, (only 760 kb) and I haven't learned to resize on my mac, the pic is located in non fish photographs under the thread: some of slc's photographs if anyone want's to see what these cats look like.

SLC
 
I agree with Tokis. All of this "natural selection" doesn't make sense, are guns natural? No. But the poachers will use them to hunt; it's only natural if we fight with tooth and claw. Maybe we could have evolved ourselfs to make us some wild predator with long nails and canine teeth, but we did not. What the Amur leopard did was natural and in the millions that earth has, while the handful an Amur leopard has, I value the wellbeing of the animal over the person, much as I don't like to say it. I'd sacrifice myself for an animal. No matter what, humanity will have threats. You kill one thing, another thing will just come by, this time more populated, until you completely destroy it.
 
I agree with Tokis. All of this "natural selection" doesn't make sense, are guns natural? No. But the poachers will use them to hunt; it's only natural if we fight with tooth and claw. Maybe we could have evolved ourselfs to make us some wild predator with long nails and canine teeth, but we did not. What the Amur leopard did was natural and in the millions that earth has, while the handful an Amur leopard has, I value the wellbeing of the animal over the person, much as I don't like to say it. I'd sacrifice myself for an animal. No matter what, humanity will have threats. You kill one thing, another thing will just come by, this time more populated, until you completely destroy it.

That's not true. We are nature too. We are animals just like anything else on this planet. We are nature. What we create is nature. Anything we do is natural.
 
I agree with Tokis. All of this "natural selection" doesn't make sense, are guns natural? No. But the poachers will use them to hunt; it's only natural if we fight with tooth and claw. Maybe we could have evolved ourselfs to make us some wild predator with long nails and canine teeth, but we did not. What the Amur leopard did was natural and in the millions that earth has, while the handful an Amur leopard has, I value the wellbeing of the animal over the person, much as I don't like to say it. I'd sacrifice myself for an animal. No matter what, humanity will have threats. You kill one thing, another thing will just come by, this time more populated, until you completely destroy it.

That's not true. We are nature too. We are animals just like anything else on this planet. We are nature. What we create is nature. Anything we do is natural.

No, anything we do is man-made ;) . I don't personally count man wiping out animals on this planet as natural selection, you wouldn't call a gun natural would you? It doesn't naturally occur anywhere in nature, so why say its natural when a guy blows an animal to peices with a shotgun?
 
So if you saw a gun toting leopard, would you call it natural?

Nope. Neither would i call sharks with laser beams attached to their heads natural lol. The gun is man-made, just because an animal happens to have some sort of attachment to it doesn't make it natural, otherwise that would be like saying cages for animals are natural (which they aren't).
 
Their are chimps that use sticks to lure out and eat termites. Is that "un-natural"? :rolleyes:
 
No, that's completely natural. They didn't assemble sticks, but we do assemble guns.
 

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