Angels ok in a community tank?

[Eleonora]

My Angels are getting too big for my 50L tank, so I wanted to put them in my 180L. Currently there is a community of fish in the 180L (see my signature). Are Angels OK in a community tank?

 

[Phantom Thief]

There are two problems.

Firstly, silver sharks cannot be put in tanks smaller then 400 litres, because they get big and are very active. Secondly, there may be some nipping by the black widows, since they have been known to fin nip and should be in a larger school if you want them to be peaceful.

P.T.

 

[glolite]

Hi
I'm no expert but would say that if the angels are big and the tetras are small the angels will eat them. I overheard at the LFS that angels won't eat smaller fish if they are introduced when they are juveniles. How big are they? Otherwise no problem as angels ar ok as community fish.

 

[sylvia]

None of those tetras are particularly small-growing so I wouldn't worry about that. However, you can't add angels for the simple reason that you need to do some other things first. For a start - rehome the balas - they grow to 12 inches and have to be housed in at least 100 gallons (400 litres) or more. Next, each of those tetras needs to be in a school of at least 6. It's also true that the widows will nip and the smallish male guppies run the risk of being eaten.

Angels should be kept in a tank of at least 30 gallons and at least 18 inches tall. As such, the 15 gallon or less that you have four in is very unsuitable and moving them to your larger community isn't an option at the moment.

You'll either have to re-home them or do some serious re-thinking as regards your stocking and get rid of a few of those fish to solve incompatibilities. Or you can buy a new tank for the angels. They'd do well with a bristlenose plec and scissortail rasboras in a 55 gallon...

 

[Apache]

FWIW, currently we have a pair of leopard angels in our 30 gal hex tank... They are small right now (about 2" each), and they get along OK with all our other fish (which are all about 1 to 1 1/2" each, except for the betta and pleco they're about 3" each). The only problem has been some fin nipping by the angels to the betta, so he's currently in a bachelor pad...

 

[Eleonora]

The Balas are about 5cm long and they have been that size since I got them over a year ago.

The biggest Angel I have is about 5cm and they haven't changed in size for about 6 months either. The reason why I want to move them is because 2 have paired off and now both are picking on the others.

Still not good to move them in?

 

[Eleonora]

Happy to report that the reason for 2 of my angels aggression is that they laid eggs today. I've taken the 2 other (victim) angels home as they were being torn to shreds after the eggs were laid. I'll have to put them in my 180L and hope for the best.

 

[plecoperson]

Secondly, there may be some nipping by the black widows, since they have been known to fin nip and should be in a larger school if you want them to be peaceful.

Not true actually. Twice I have kept just a pair of BWT and they are fine. There are excpetions to every rule and it seems maybe Eleonora and I both have the exceptions...after all, she didnt mention that the communtiy didnt get along fine.

Next, each of those tetras needs to be in a school of at least 6.

again, not necessarily true. Ive had pairs of neons, silvertips, harlequins, head&tail light, and black widow tetra and have had NO problems with them getting on with the other fish, or each other.

It is not necessary to go out and buy 6 fish when you only want 2 or three...in fact it is probably detrimental to the tank because you are far more likely to overstock.

 

[Maddsy]

None of those tetras are particularly small-growing so I wouldn't worry about that. However, you can't add angels for the simple reason that you need to do some other things first. For a start - rehome the balas - they grow to 12 inches and have to be housed in at least 100 gallons (400 litres) or more. Next, each of those tetras needs to be in a school of at least 6. It's also true that the widows will nip and the smallish male guppies run the risk of being eaten.

Angels should be kept in a tank of at least 30 gallons and at least 18 inches tall. As such, the 15 gallon or less that you have four in is very unsuitable and moving them to your larger community isn't an option at the moment.

You'll either have to re-home them or do some serious re-thinking as regards your stocking and get rid of a few of those fish to solve incompatibilities. Or you can buy a new tank for the angels. They'd do well with a bristlenose plec and scissortail rasboras in a 55 gallon...

sorry to wander off topic slightly but how long will it take for the Balas to reach 12"

Maddsy

 

[sylvia]

I'm not sure quite how quickly balas grow... I've heard they are actualy very fast growers but have never kept them myself as I wouldn't put them in anything less than 150 gallons and don't have a tank that size at the moment.

As for the widow tetras - I only said they have been known to fin nip. They may, they may not. There are no angels in that community tank at the moment and no fish with truly long fins. As such, they may get along now but they may not do so well with the angels later.

As for tetras being in schools - it isn't a matter of 'they can survive' or 'I want it this way' it's a matter of them, the fish, being happy. These fish live in large schools in the wild and keeping them in pairs is completely unatural and unfair. They did not ask to be put in a little tank on their own and they deserve the best environment.

If you are worried about over-stocking, remove some of the species and replace those fish with more of the remaining species. Fewer species and larger shoals is always better with schooling fish than several species in pairs.

 

[plecoperson]

As for tetras being in schools - it isn't a matter of 'they can survive' or 'I want it this way' it's a matter of them, the fish, being happy.

Please explain to me how you know when a fish is happy.

My fish are all very healthy with vibrant colours and there is no fin nipping. so while i dont think fish can be happy, I think my fish are very healthy and content.

 

[Synirr]

plecoperson:
Simply put, shoaling fish should be in shoals.
All animals are happier and healthier when they are able to retain as much of their natural behaviour as possible, and keeping shoaling fish in groups of 6 or more does just that. Yes, they can survive singly or in pairs, but instinct dictates that they should be with larger groups of their own kind, and they often become stressed or shy when there aren't enough of their own kind in their tank. I have no doubt your fish are healthy, but if I were ever to purchase shoaling fish, I know I'd be sure to buy them in groups of 6... better safe than sorry

As for the main topic of this thread, I agree with what has been said thus far.

 

[plecoperson]

but you still havent explained how you know when a fish is happy.

Its not a question of whether my fish are thrivin or not. as Ive had most of them for nearly a year.

as to say "better safe than sorry" whats unsafe about keeping fish in pairs? it could be worse...they could all be on their own.

 

[gaya]

but you still havent explained how you know when a fish is happy.

Its not a question of whether my fish are thrivin or not. as Ive had most of them for nearly a year.

as to say "better safe than sorry" whats unsafe about keeping fish in pairs? it could be worse...they could all be on their own.

Being able to tell if a fish is happy or not is tricky and who knows what they consider happiness to be. But shoaling fish can be seen in a similar way as we see our selves. Two people could live on an island by themselves and physically thrive and even laugh once in awhile but we know that a preferred state for people is to live in a community with other humans. That’s what we all gravitate towards and that’s what shoaling fish gravitate towards as well. Hmm. Maybe that doesn’t make sense but I’m confused today anyway.