Angelfish Breeding Log 2nd Attempt

Unknownfuture

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I had an experience with angel fry. Totally unintended. 2 angels in a large biorb - laid probably 150-200 eggs. Basically all hatched. Freaked out and bought some hikari first bites, grey up very fast. When they were big enough I gave 60 odd to a friend and another 50 I sold to a shop. Along the way I had fatalities and this was mainly due to them being sucked into the overflow at night and ending up on the filter floss. The angel fish parents were as parents should be. No eating of the eggs and looking after the fry. The breeding pair can’t be used in my main aquarium due to aggression, they swipe the other fish and kill them one by one so they will be on their way soon to a new home. I’ve warned the bloke who wants them to expect 100’s or fry and to put them in a tank by themselves. They are savages come breeding time.
 
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Uberhoust

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@Unknownfuture I tried to feed my first batch Hikari First Bites but the young either refused to eat them or they could not get the pieces in their mouths, they would swim up to the pellet then swim away. I have hear of others being able to raise their angel fry by these means and hoped it would work for me. The little ones will now take the first bites and ground up flakes but only with disdain. I did manage to feed them protozoans and could watch them eat but I couldn't get a high enough population to maintain them on protozoans. So far nauplii has given me the most success, that and leaving the fry with the parents.
 

Unknownfuture

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So many variables with fry. I just got lucky and they were very hardy fry that would eat anything. Leaving with the parents, if they are good parents helps the fry 100%
 
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Uberhoust

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Five weeks since the eggs have been laid and I now have 92 angel fry less than a dime in size, in their new 60 gallon tank. Unfortunately I made the decision to separate the fry from the adults last night because some of the fry were feeding off the male's fins and body, and his fins were starting to show the wear, the female did not permit this to occur.

I am still primarily feeding them fresh nauplii but they now get frozen daphnia, previously frozen nauplii from when they did not eat as much, first bites, and ground up flakes of various varieties.

The transfer did not go particularly smooth. I first put both adults into a 5 gallon pail of their water, then I started to scoop out the fry. This task proved very difficult, I had to remove all the plants, wood, and rocks. I scooped as many fry without using a net but had about 20 that I had to net because they were very wary. The process took less than an hour and in that time the female started laying on her side on the bottom of the bucket. Did a super fast water change on the parents tank and gently picked up the female and put her back in the tank. Within seconds of re-introduction to the tank the female perked up and this morning she was behaving normally. They did not like being transferred to the pail at all.

All the fry are still living and feeding normally. There new tank has some plants I have been putting aside for them including a helvola water lily from my outside water pond. The tank has a floating wood and water lettuce section to help provide some shelter for the fry, though they don't seem to care that much about it yet.

I will be keeping them in this tank until the bioloading increases too much when I will have to re-home the majority of them.

Fry Home.jpg
 
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Uberhoust

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Well the angel are juveniles now, and a second batch of fry have been started by the parents. I haven't lost any of the juveniles but they now eat more than my display tank fish. Thanks to all that sent in helpful suggestions.

The juveniles are eating just about anything I feed them now, though in regards to dry food they seem to prefer bug bites. The tank will not keep them for too much longer. I will be selling, if I can, the majority of the juveniles and will accept trades for things like frogbit. Send me a note if you live on Vancouver Island and would like some angels.

Juvenile Angels 1.jpg
 

kribensis12

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oh wow! Congratulations! Fry are so fascinating to watch!

I could be wrong, but it seems that you have some white ones with the "wild type" barring on them. If so, those could look super cool as adults!

It has always amazed me how quick angel fry seem to grow!
 
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Uberhoust

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I really like the "wild type" and hope I have a few that way. My wife and I are considering if we want to raise more angels, the whole experience has be immensely interesting. I will be keeping about 15 from this batch to grow out further, with the hope we have some nice ones. This group has the following types .
  • Silver with standard 4 bars
  • Silver with >4 bars (not as well represented)
  • 4 bars with more golden background
  • Silver with black fin edges
  • Silver with black on the back half
  • Few strange individuals, some with black spots which I find interesting.
I was surprised that I don't seem to have any with deformities, I may have lucked out with the pairing as they seem to produce some robust fry. The current batch, which I am not watching as carefully, are swimming less than 4 days now but eating heavily and seem to be able to move around in the current from an AC 70 filter in a 37 gallon tank.

Right now my biggest concern will be to find homes for these ones. A couple of shops have said they would take some or all.
 

ghyti

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I really like the "wild type" and hope I have a few that way. My wife and I are considering if we want to raise more angels, the whole experience has be immensely interesting. I will be keeping about 15 from this batch to grow out further, with the hope we have some nice ones. This group has the following types .
  • Silver with standard 4 bars
  • Silver with >4 bars (not as well represented)
  • 4 bars with more golden background
  • Silver with black fin edges
  • Silver with black on the back half
  • Few strange individuals, some with black spots which I find interesting.
I was surprised that I don't seem to have any with deformities, I may have lucked out with the pairing as they seem to produce some robust fry. The current batch, which I am not watching as carefully, are swimming less than 4 days now but eating heavily and seem to be able to move around in the current from an AC 70 filter in a 37 gallon tank.

Right now my biggest concern will be to find homes for these ones. A couple of shops have said they would take some or all.
The parents are a Silver and a Smokey. The little ones with black marking on the back half are Smokies like their mother. I did see the rwo white ones. If not a trick of the lighting, those two look to be Platinums, which would mean that both the parents would have to have a gold gene and a blue gene. Generally their coloration changes as they grow so some will need more time to express their true markings.
 
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Uberhoust

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@ghyti thanks for the id of types for the Angels. The parents are from the first angels I have ever owned and they are a combination of the type of angels I like, the Silvers with the bars, and the ones my wife likes the Smokey. There was no intention to breed them at the beginning.

The male has definite blue highlights, particularly on the pectoral fins, but also has a golden sheen. There are also green undertones in the check/gill cover areas. He is also quite robust but generally mellow fish.

The female definitely is definitely blue and doesn't have any goldish highlights at all. If I was to see the female in the wild I would say that she shows leucistic color tendencies. I like the color but I wonder how much line breeding took place to produce that color. She is robust but small.

I would like to know more about the genetics of the Angels. Is there a site you could recommend that goes in-depth into the genetic traits along with the dominance of those traits. You mentioned the gold gene and needing it present in both parents to allow expression within their offspring.
 

ghyti

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I got interested in genetics when I had a pair of Black fish produce some Orange babies and I couldn't figure out how that could happen. The Gold gene is recessive and will not express unless the fish has 2 doses of the gene so it is unlikely you can tell if the fish has a single dose by looking at them. You can do a google search for Angelfish genetics and get quite a few hits. here are a couple to get you started.

http://www.theangelfishsociety.org/forum/forum.php

 
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Uberhoust

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@ghyti ,I have searched before but did not do it carefully enough and only ended up with the most basic of the descriptions. Your first link has some interesting articles from Dr. Norton. I will read when I get home. The second link did not resolve to a valid address. Thanks.
 

ghyti

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Try this on. If it doesn't work just go to angelsplus.com. the learning center (bottom of the page) has lots of Angel articles, genetics is one of them.
 

kribensis12

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Try this on. If it doesn't work just go to angelsplus.com. the learning center (bottom of the page) has lots of Angel articles, genetics is one of them.
Angelsplus is an EXCELLENT resource.
 

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