Angelfish And Stress

[KathyM]

We've had a bit of a bad run with angels, so I'll start at the beginning.

Earlier on this year we bought 4 young koi angels, all of which came down with stress related illness coupled with finrot - they were very tatty when I bought them and I had put it down to them being in a large group in a small tank at the fish shop, not knowing better. Only two recovered, but they did very well and a little while ago when we had the big tank, we decided to sell them to concentrate on other fish, along with some other angels we got in between that on introduction to the tank, showed signs of stress but didn't fall ill.

Recently we moved, and downsized our main tank to a Rio 300. I missed having angels, so Baz bought me two as a surprise from the same LFS. Unfortunately, we were taken for a ride a bit - Baz is partially sighted but checked with the fish shop staff that it was okay to buy these two angels and was sold them. It turned out one of them (a Koi female) was split from her "boyfriend", which we didn't find out until a few days ago. Both of the angels arrived with tatty fins, the Koi female however was very stressed, had tightly clamped fins, and succumbed to what we think was columnaris. Have treated the tank, salt dipped both angels. The Koi female didn't make it, but the other fish are fine, including the other angel.

I'm pretty certain the Koi female was the one who started the disease, as when we went back to the LFS her boyfriend was in a very similar condition (this was when we found out they had been a breeding pair) and the others in with him (ones the same as our other that we bought) were all a bit fluffy. I am tempted to believe that the reason she didn't recover is more down to stress than management, as she really was very stressed, I assume from being split from her boyfriend and from coming into a new tank. Our water quality is pretty immaculate, we wanted to ensure that before we even tried angels again after our original experience.

As you can imagine, given our very bad experiences with the LFS, we're half and half on whether to use them again, but we'd really like (eventually) to have another angel in with our remaining one, Blade. However, we really don't want to go down this route again, it seems that any time we introduce angels, the stress affects them to some degree, and in this latest case (and the case of the original four Kois), it has been pretty terrible.

I've read online that columnaris is in all tanks and tends to only hit when other factors come into play, such as stress, bad breeding, poor water quality. I've also read that a good idea for introducing new fish to a tank that's had a victim, is to add medication on their arrival, just in case.

Can anyone give me some solid advice on how to go about adding another angel to our tank? Blade is not fully grown, probably 5" from top of dorsal to bottom of ventral, with a 2.5" body. Not only do we need advice on avoiding stress and columnaris, but on how to go about getting him (or her) a mate. We know the Koi that died was a female, and Blade seemed very friendly with her, but we don't know his/her sex.

Is the LFS to blame for selling a known partially sighted man obviously poorly fish? I think it's more our fault, but then I don't trust them much now either as this isn't the first time they haven't been forthcoming. However, I'm worried about going further afield as the stress on the fish will be greater I would imagine?

Can anyone advise us where to start?

 

[KathyM]

Sorry, I also forgot to ask if it's time to give up on Kois due to their problems? Is it worth stiking to "hardier" varieties, and if so, what are they? Blade is a black - not a double black as he still has striping, but I'd like something very different to him.

 

[Tolak]

If they are selling fish that have an obvious disease they aren't a good shop. They shouldn't be selling fish that are well from a tank with an obvious disease. They are also not too bright from a business standpoint selling half of a pair; they could get quite a bit more for a pair than two unpaired fish. If they are in any way taking advantage of a person's disability they need something I can't say on this family oriented forum.

There is quite a bit of inbreeding involved with koi angels, more so than with other angels. If done properly it shouldn't affect their health, if done improperly plain silvers can be fragile. I would check out a local club if at all possible; http/fins.actwin.com/dir/clubs.php?c=20 Most breeders aren't in it for the money, if they make enough to cover their expenses with a few bucks left over they're happy. You are sure to get better quality fish that way, which means they will acclimate better. I quar any new fish, no matter where they are from, and have gotten into it with some local breeders about it. When they agree to come to my house to med & do water changes on a larger tank because their fish caused a disease I'll toss them right in with my regular stock, so far I've had no takers.

I get in potential breeders once in a while; they get a 2 to 4 week quar in a dimly lit tank with some tall plants. Smaller ones go in a 10-gallon, larger ones in a 20-gallon. This gives them a chance to get acclimated to new surroundings, as well as different water & food. This tank gets extra attention with water changes & such; this keeps any bad bacteria at bay. Angels here seem to be prone to internal protizoans, if I notice any newcomers that are slow to eat I sprinkle a little metronidazole on brine shrimp for a couple of days, this clears it right up. This is something you would have to talk to a vet about getting in since you are in the UK; if I'm not mistaken dimetronidazole is used over there.

 

[KathyM]

Thank you ever so much for the advice Tolak.

I've just phoned the fish shop to let them know about what happened. Guy didn't have a clue what I was talking about, just denied selling Baz them, said it must've been the boss (in a panicky voice *lol*) - it was the boss that sold Baz them, Baz remembers that. He said he'd get the boss to ring me to discuss things, but that although the angels were a bit fluffy they've sold the lot now so there's "no panic".

I think we know which shop we won't be using again. It's a real shame too because they're the only truly local fish shop for us.

 

[Tolak]

It is a bummer when someplace you thought was good isn't as good as expected, and you have to learn that from a bad experience. Sometimes you have to go a little out of your way to find the best quality, but in the long run it's worth it.

 

[KathyM]

You're absolutely right Tolak, and again thanks for your advice.

I never did get a phonecall back, so I think they're just not bothered. It's a shame too because those angels will have gone off to homes probably as ill prepared as we were (especially if they had all their sight and still bought fluffy angels), and other families will be struggling to keep them alive like we were here. All in all though, it's down on them to fix their bad reputation now - it won't just be me that's concerned about how bad they are.

 

[Iron Man]

Whatever you do in the future make sure you acclimate them well. At least in my experience they have been much more sensitive to water parameter changes than other fish.

For one example, the last time I had them I had bought 4 medium marbled angels for my 55 gallon from a lfs. They all seemed very healthy and the store had just got em in so I bought them. The girl made sure she put only 2 in a bag as opposed to 4 in one bag like you would do others.

I floated the two bags on the top of the water like you would any other fish, but I knew them being angels to float them for much longer, pouring a small amount of tank water in the bag say every 15 minutes to very slowly get the angels used to it. They stayed taped to the glass at the top of the water for 20 minutes and had already had some water poured in em a couple times, when one of the bags had come undone and the angels were swimming around in the tank. I knew those angels were gonna die. The others were acclimated for about an hour.

The two that came out of the bag so soon died that day and the next day. The two that were acclimated for a while survived just fine.

That's been my experience anyway.