An approach to recognizing consciousness.

[gwand]

Streamlining the consciousness debate, from trees to hermit crabs

Beyond spirited dinner party debate, establishing which creatures have consciousness matters in terms of animal welfare and conservation policy. A Michigan State University philosophy scholar has added clarity to a messy philosophical debate.

phys.org

 

[GaryE]

Hmm, I seem to be a level headed mysterian.

When I was a child, I was raised to believe humans were special and unique, and was thoroughly shocked the first time an adult said we were animals like all the other species around us. That was a way simpler, surer world to believe in, but what's going on here is more fun to learn about. This is an exciting time to be alive. In 100 years, we stand to be getting somewhere.
I downloaded that paper and will give it a detailed read when I'm not stopping and looking in between thanksgiving activities.

I don't know how all this could affect animal welfare and conservation - we're humans and we'll probably ignore it all. We've proven to be very good at that. But it is very intriguing and thought provoking.

 

[gwand]

I think consciousness is on a continuum and not a binary phenomenon. “Simple” creatures probably have subjective experiences and a sense of self.

 

[GaryE]

I'm not into the supernatural, spirits, souls or ghosts, and I don't believe we can talk to other creatures (except my dog, and she's a lousy conversationalist back). I can't help but think a lot of people are sounding a bit like old fashioned animists. I've spoken with people who believe everything from trees to humans have spirits, and that doesn't add up to me. But I think with all the intelligences around us, we're in a world we can respect. It doesn't care if we worship it and most intelligences couldn't care less if we're here or not. But as I bash and destroy my way though my life, I am in an interconnected world with a lot of other creatures who are bashing and destroying in their own ways. It's kind of nice.

 

[plebian]

I can't help but think a lot of people are sounding a bit like old fashioned animists. I've spoken with people who believe everything from trees to humans have spirits, and that doesn't add up to me.

Have you ever heard of pantheism? Or the concept of immanence? Personally, I don't think the presence of consciousness in other species is debatable. Every living thing possesses at least a rudimentary form of consciousness. How else could they respond to a constantly changing environment otherwise? Just because humans have evolved a more complex way of processing the world doesn't mean we should discount the abilities of other species. It's somewhat ironic given how limited human perception is compared to some other species.

 

[GaryE]

These are old concepts, and good tries at explaining the world. I don't think we need to add the supernatural to the mix, but I guess that's a debate for another forum - one that discusses religious ideas. This one doesn't.
Whatever consciousness and intelligence are defined as by humans, they seem to be a shared part of nature with many other species. It makes sense it would evolve early, as it's a very useful thing indeed. We used to think the universe had our planet as its centre, and that's done as an idea (outside of versions of the flat earth crowd). A lot of people still think we're the centre of life on the planet. We're a cocky little species. We'll eventually get past our human egos and self importance and get down to understanding the real world. Maybe?

 

[plebian]

I don't think we need to add the supernatural to the mix, but I guess that's a debate for another forum - one that discusses religious ideas. This one doesn't.

Certainly a debate for another forum. Nevertheless, I wasn't "adding supernatural to the mix". On the contrary, I was simply pointing out that from a certain perspective, the very concept of "supernatural" is superfluous. I'll let it rest at that.

 

[gwand]

It turns out that very few neurons (nervous system cells) are required for an organism to possess a rudimentary form of consciousness. How many quibits will it require for a quantum computer to possess a form of consciousness? Will are future desk top computers be aware of our existence? Can we hurt its feelings? Do we call it he, she or they?

 

[GaryE]

I can tell you that if computers have feeling that can be hurt, then I've caused PTSD since Windows 11 has become a commercial virus app in mine.
I think we may want to look away from tech in this. It's interesting that as we create technology that could develop intelligence that isn't artificial, we still have a hard time looking at the biology of the creatures around us, who have had their own forms of intelligence all the way along. I get that science goes where the money is, or it doesn't get funded. But in biology, and nature there are worlds to be discovered, and we've barely been able to admit they're there.
We have people dreaming of going to Mars who don't have the empathy to pick up on the world around them. But you can't monetize that.

 

[gwand]

Scientists on 'urgent' quest to explain consciousness as AI gathers pace

As AI—and the ethical debate surrounding it—accelerates, scientists argue that understanding consciousness is now more urgent than ever.

medicalxpress.com

 

[anewbie]

Why the heck would i want my consciousness recognized.

 

[gwand]

Why the heck would i want my consciousness recognized.

So your fishes know you are a sentient being!

 

[anewbie]

So your fishes know you are a sentient being!

My fishes just assume i'm a giant food machine; the faster they eat me the happier they become.

 

[GaryE]

My fishes just assume i'm a giant food machine; the faster they eat me the happier they become.

They, like me, have seen enough to know you aren't a flake. For them it's an already completely processed food question.

 

[anewbie]

They, like me, have seen enough to know you aren't a flake. For them it's an already completely processed food question.

You are special.