Ammonia Burn Treatment

LauraFrog

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Went into a fish shop today and guess what? Bettas in 1/16th gal drinking cups. The worst I've ever seen. The diameter of the cups was less than the length of the average betta not including fins so they couldn't even sit straight in the water due to lack of space, let alone turn around or actually swim. There were about 20 being kept in such conditions and all were looking ill. The alternative was being held by tremendous current against a divider in the ridiculously overstocked open system. (The RSPCA will be getting a call.)

I rescued one (would have taken more but they were asking an exorbitant price and there was stuff I needed elsewhere). Veiltail, cellophane fins pink butterfly with black/purple marbling on the body. Quite attractive and surprisingly well fed but with torn fins, fin chewing damage and obvious ammonia burns. Other than clean water is there anything I can do to heal ammonia burns? It hasn't degenerated into finrot yet.

I can't believe what people will do to animals through ignorance or failure to give a stuff. It's a miracle that more of them weren't dead or dying.
 
there are soo many of these posts. guys, we all know lfs should look after the fish better but at then end of the day the more fish they can cram in the more money they can make. all we can do is treat ours well.
 
there are soo many of these posts. guys, we all know lfs should look after the fish better but at then end of the day the more fish they can cram in the more money they can make. all we can do is treat ours well.


I know it seems like 'another one of them posts', but the OP is asking about ammonia burns. She was just telling us how they came about.
 
as hard as it is, the worst thing you can do is actually buy (rescue?) these fish from the shops.
if they see them selling, they will buy in more and the circle continues. it wont stop until people stop buying these fish in desperate situations :-(
 
as hard as it is, the worst thing you can do is actually buy (rescue?) these fish from the shops.
if they see them selling, they will buy in more and the circle continues. it wont stop until people stop buying these fish in desperate situations :-(


Hi, I'm guessing you've already added extra water conditioner or a little salt to encourage slime coat development, and maybe a little Melafix.
A bit late now, but a smidge of salt does help prevent nitrite uptake...
Feels like there's something hovering on the edge of wherever my brain used to be but it's not landing and probably just fluff anyway...
Googling seems to bring drug advertising and recommendations, such as this:

<a href="http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/saltwater...1704ammonia.htm" target="_blank">http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/saltwater...1704ammonia.htm</a>

but I personally am unhappy about the leap into antibiotics and it also recommends things like Amquel - sounds like sales force stuff...


As they'd have been shipped separately, the torn fins are likely actually ammonia damage/early stage finrot, even if not yet discoloured, and I'd personally use a natural anti bacterial/antifungal like Pimafix, bearing in mind that bettas are med sensitive and a lowered dose might be safest even there.
Although a real expert generally shows up just as I'm posting my amateur suggestions as being better than nothing - may be someone soon with more knowledgeable advice.

At least the one poor little thing's safely home and in clean water now.

I know you said you'd inform the RSPCA, although I expect they get many such alerts and doubt they can do much; do hope you said something in case they simply didn't realize - hard to make sales also, when the fish is too cramped to show off finnage - and that might make the more telling point with the uncaring.

If absolutely everyone said something every time, in a civil but firm manner, something would get done about these situations...

edit - whoops, don't know how I grabbed the wrong quote, but I do have a knack for these things...
 
I didn't add anything except clean water, and he's eating bio gold pellets and looking a lot happier. I was waiting on some advice before I treated him. I'm not sure whether he has been in a fight or not but I've had a better look at his injuries and I still suspect it: Half of one ventral missing, six rays of the anal fin gone, big chunk taken out of the tail, dorsal fin has holes in it and is split in two places.

People DO buy these bettas, not betta rescuers but people who don't realise that it's wrong to keep them this way. I can't stop them from buying them. I did tell the sales assistant what I thought - ie those containers are much too small, why don't you use that divided setup?
'we ran out of containers'
Me: Well why don't you use some of the bowls you've got for sale just until you have enough larger containers so the bettas have room to move?
'The boss wouldn't let us' and that's where it's gotta stop, because I can't argue with 'the boss' who isn't there. Who's she going to listen to, some annoying teenager who's pushing the cause of a little slimy thing with fins or the boss who has the power to put her pay up, cut it, or even sack her?
 
Lucky I'm used to feeling silly - didn't even look at the poster's name, just the lack of advice and the way the person might be feeling with a request for suggestions misunderstood - and it's one of the experts I was hoping would show up. :rofl:

Any situation involving abused and suffering bettas and concerned rescuers is horrifying - and I'm certainly not making light of that or the way you must be feeling.
I'm killing myself laughing because I'm having such a totally Laurel and Hardy life right now, and the way my intendedly sympathetic response worked is sort of hilarious, at least to the grossly (and giggle-prone) sleep-deprived who aren't currently looking at a mangled fish and a recently depressing experience.
I even grabbed the wrong 'reply' or I'd (presumably) have noticed that this was LauraFrog - just thinking OMG, upset person should have some kind of constructive response ASAP: I actually wasn't intending to support the position of refusing to rescue abused bettas, although it does make grim, long-term sense.
I'm sorry but I've only seen this many continuous screw-ups in the old comedies - and I can either laugh or die of embarrassment - might do both, come to think of it.
And I'm especially sorry because you should at least be getting sympathy and support, not the 3 stooges division all rolled into one and apparently being critical.

I suppose the poor little guy got dumped in with one of the others and had a brawl - I do hope it was at least an accident, as saw somewhere somebody posting about idiot boys sometimes doing that for 'fun'...

And I'm glad you mentioned the too-small containers to the clerk though - may be about all any one can do, but with enough doing so, change tends to occur.
Sooner or later, the boss'll learn customers keep complaining...
Although locking him in a cupboard for a few days might be not only more instructive, but more fun.
 
Gotta agree with the lock boss in cupboard bit. The poor damn bettas!

If you're calling me an expert, you're sadly mistaken LOL! I'm just some random idiot who got hooked on fish and went and read every book and website I could lay my hands on. It doesn't make me anything special, I just try to help out where I can.

I think the fins are starting to heal. He's a butterfly, and the coloured part of the anal fin where it has been ripped out has started growing back. I have seen worse injuries heal (an accidental fight, the divider fell down) but not on a fish weakened by exposure to ammonia. I'm not used to ammonia burn because I keep my water so clean I've never seen it before. I'm scared to add salt in case I aggravate it. I'm worrying that this could be fullblown finrot. His fins are a very pale white, and I can't really tell if they're supposed to be cellophane or opaque, but they are fraying at the ends. Now I could go and freak ot completely because if it is finrot it looks like I'm going to lose the tail membranes halfway up the fins. I'll try to get a picture later. I have antibiotics but I don't think they would help in this case because it doesn't look like bacterial finrot, just like damaged tissue falling off. He's active and eating and saw his reflection in the glass last night and flared at it - and that's when I got worried cause his fins don't look great.
 
Lucky I'm used to feeling silly - didn't even look at the poster's name, just the lack of advice and the way the person might be feeling with a request for suggestions misunderstood - and it's one of the experts I was hoping would show up. :rofl:

Any situation involving abused and suffering bettas and concerned rescuers is horrifying - and I'm certainly not making light of that or the way you must be feeling.
I'm killing myself laughing because I'm having such a totally Laurel and Hardy life right now, and the way my intendedly sympathetic response worked is sort of hilarious, at least to the grossly (and giggle-prone) sleep-deprived who aren't currently looking at a mangled fish and a recently depressing experience.
I even grabbed the wrong 'reply' or I'd (presumably) have noticed that this was LauraFrog - just thinking OMG, upset person should have some kind of constructive response ASAP: I actually wasn't intending to support the position of refusing to rescue abused bettas, although it does make grim, long-term sense.
I'm sorry but I've only seen this many continuous screw-ups in the old comedies - and I can either laugh or die of embarrassment - might do both, come to think of it.
And I'm especially sorry because you should at least be getting sympathy and support, not the 3 stooges division all rolled into one and apparently being critical.

I suppose the poor little guy got dumped in with one of the others and had a brawl - I do hope it was at least an accident, as saw somewhere somebody posting about idiot boys sometimes doing that for 'fun'...

And I'm glad you mentioned the too-small containers to the clerk though - may be about all any one can do, but with enough doing so, change tends to occur.
Sooner or later, the boss'll learn customers keep complaining...
Although locking him in a cupboard for a few days might be not only more instructive, but more fun.
Lol, that cracked me up..... sounds like me when im entirely too sleep deprived and babbling at odd hours of the night here. :lol: I'm not alone :good:

Gotta agree with the lock boss in cupboard bit. The poor damn bettas!

If you're calling me an expert, you're sadly mistaken LOL! I'm just some random idiot who got hooked on fish and went and read every book and website I could lay my hands on. It doesn't make me anything special, I just try to help out where I can.

I think the fins are starting to heal. He's a butterfly, and the coloured part of the anal fin where it has been ripped out has started growing back. I have seen worse injuries heal (an accidental fight, the divider fell down) but not on a fish weakened by exposure to ammonia. I'm not used to ammonia burn because I keep my water so clean I've never seen it before. I'm scared to add salt in case I aggravate it. I'm worrying that this could be fullblown finrot. His fins are a very pale white, and I can't really tell if they're supposed to be cellophane or opaque, but they are fraying at the ends. Now I could go and freak ot completely because if it is finrot it looks like I'm going to lose the tail membranes halfway up the fins. I'll try to get a picture later. I have antibiotics but I don't think they would help in this case because it doesn't look like bacterial finrot, just like damaged tissue falling off. He's active and eating and saw his reflection in the glass last night and flared at it - and that's when I got worried cause his fins don't look great.
How is he looking now? I'm confident you know what to do. Best of luck with him!
 
I don't think it's finrot, he's just a funny colour. He's blown a nest and spends all day under it. Maybe he's just lazy. He's eating so he can't be that sick. His gills are brick red and he seems to be relying on breathing air an awful lot - will this settle down or is it permanent damage? He looks okay otherwise and doesn't seem upset.
 
I don't think it's finrot, he's just a funny colour. He's blown a nest and spends all day under it. Maybe he's just lazy. He's eating so he can't be that sick. His gills are brick red and he seems to be relying on breathing air an awful lot - will this settle down or is it permanent damage? He looks okay otherwise and doesn't seem upset.


Yeah, an expert isn't somebody who studies widely and has personal experience, they're just born All-Knowing.
It's a magical state of Being, conferred upon the blessed.
Modesty is good, though, looks well on everyone.
Going by the advice and info I've seen you give, I do regard you as an expert - not expected to be all-knowing, obviously, as nobody can be, but darned good.

(And thanks, ReMz, while I'm sure to win the Incoherency Stakes, I appreciate the kindly sentiment.
And you did make me feel a little better, though honestly, I scare myself sometimes - and it's getting worse...)

LauraFrog, if this helps any as reassurance, that and sympathy being about all I can offer:

I recently bought a tiny betta (sold as male but either a transvestite or a girl! who can go in my sorority when I finally get it going! and have a proper tank! instead of an emergency hex thing) who had such red colouration over her gills, I wasn't sure if it matched her fins or inflammation, although it looked raw to me and it's nearly all gone now.
I know I'm paranoid, so trying not to leap to conclusions, but the poor little thing looked dreadful - in a cute way, of course.
She still opens her little mouth the odd time, though haven't noticed her doing it lately, actually, but was doing it constantly before, and did seem to be surface breathing an awful lot when I first got her.
And I did think she'd never be quite normal...
Hard to tell with her, (she always likes to get up front as soon as you approach and look you in the eyes and she's so small) but she didn't seem to have any gill flaps, almost looked slashed front and back of the gill area, and I thought she had deformities but I'm beginning to wonder, it may be just with the red gone but it looks almost as though the little flaps are growing in or not as bad as I'd thought - doesn't look so odd, anyway.
It doesn't help the hex is on a shelf so the angle of vision's limited, and she tends to follow your face around, too.
If she'd ever stay sideways and still for a moment maybe I could see better, though not long ago she hardly moved at all, so...
And she's often checking around her little world now, swimming through plants and poking about, when I first come up, something she didn't do before.
She's getting so active now, but it's taking time.
She was sleepy-eyed and seemed to have tiny eyes and hardly moved and I was scared of major gill damage which I've never dealt with before, but she's so much better now.
I still can't believe her eyes look not just that much more alert but that much bigger.
But it's taken time...
Don't know, of course, but we do know bettas heal astonishingly well and fast, given decent conditions and food, because they have to, to survive all the brawling they tend to do.
With any luck, your new guy's just resting and healing, although he's been through a lot, obviously, and it's taking my new little girl a long time at a gradual improvement visible daily.
But it does sound to me as though, apart from the chewed-off fins (mine had hers in rags, but also had black indicating finrot, and ich as well) they both underwent similar bad conditions, in her case, (since my LFS doesn't do the betta-filthy-water-thing or the tiny cup) maybe a long time in transit, soaking in ammonia?
And since he's eating and even bubblenesting maybe, like mine, there will just be a long, slow recovery.
It's such a worry, wondering if there's something you should/shouldn't do.
But it does sound familiar, and I suspect he'll be just fine, given time.
 
I still disagree with you... but thanks for all the compliments! lol
Haha, incoherency stakes... You should come to one of our public speaking meetings some time. It's really funny - all we do is interrupt each other's speeches, it's hilarious...

I'm starting to think the same thing re. the long slow recovery. the nest is now thicker than the one belonging to the male in a spawning tank with a female right in front of his nose... go figure. (He's turning out to be a disaster breeder though... he keeps attacking the female who is receptive to him. Idiot.)
The gills look a little better now. I think it's a game of wait and see. I don't know how old he is anyway, and the injuries are actually kind of reminiscent of spawning injuries. It would be nice actually if he's an ex breeder because that will reduce the amount of time he could have spent stuck in that cup soaking up ammonia. (I also need some experienced dads. People want VTs, they aren't prepared to pay the extra for delta/SD because they can't really tell the difference 'it's still got long fins! What's the diff?'. When I can get nice ones that's what I breed.)
 
Bet he's hinting with the bubblenesting that he wants the babe.
'I can do better than that, Mum, pick me, pick me!"
 
LOL, probably! She's not a match for him at all but if I can find a nice pink or cambo VT female I will breed him, IF he recovers. If he's still weakened I won't put him through spawning, it's pretty stressful. I think he's got digestive troubles because he'll only take one or two pellets at a time, but I'm getting four or five down him a day - not enough to put condition on him, but enough to stop him getting worse. He's probably been fed some utter rubbish cheap junk that's gummed him up. At least I can fix that - good food and clean water, yet again. It's pretty incredible what good food and clean water will do for a fish. When I bought him I was pretty much guessing what he looked like because his colours were washed out, his fins clamped and he was floating almost on his side in the cup gasping for air, almost a constant stream of bubbles flowing out of his mouth. He looked the worst of any of them and he was tucked away in a corner - dunno whether some idiot missed him for teh water changes that I would have been doing about 6-8 times a day if I was forced to keep them like that (but he'd have been lucky to get one daily) or whether they put him there on purpose hoping nobody would complain about them leaving a fish to drop dead in some god-forsaken corner.

The betta is a resilient creature, it must be said. A few days removed from that hell and he's already got mating on his mind. Typical. His colours darken a little every day. He's got a light bf pattern, a very small ring of pink around the edge of all his fins where they join his body. The rays of his fins and the membranes closest to his body are opaque white and a very pure colour, and the rest of his fins are cellophane clear. His body's a pale peachy colour with black specks. And he's got these gorgeous gold eyes! I love their eyes, they come in as many colours as the rest of them. I did have to swap males on my in-progress spawn - the one i'm using is a self-BF, maroon and steel, and he has BLUE EYES!!! aaaw.
 

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