Ammo Lock.. And Chloramine

[Squid]

EDIT:.. just thought. probably should have put this in the newbie section. what a newbie question eh... shows how post count can be more about asking questions and not a show of knowledge eh

I dont need it at the moment, but i wondered what your view on this product is...

I have been told it just makes the ammonia non-toxic, but does not affect the cycle and cause the bateria to die off.

the description says..

"Ammo Lock instantly detoxifies ammonia and removes chlorine and chloramine in both freshwater and saltwater aquariums. By eliminating ammonia stress, this product protects healthy gill function in fish. One dose will instantly detoxify 3.0 ppm of ammonia and remove 4.0 ppm of chlorine or 2.0 ppm of chloramine. Ammo lock doesn't remove ammonia. In converts ammonia to a non-toxic form. So test kits will still show positive for ammonia. A positive ammonia test after 7 days may indicate overfeeding or overstocking. The biological filter of the aquarium will consume the non-toxic form of ammonia, converting it first to nitrite than to nitrate."

any views on this..

also.. im still confused on chloramine.. what is this..? I know a lot of the water safe type treatments deal with it.

Squid

 

[Jules H-T]

Chlorine is used by water companies to kill bacteria in domestic water supplies. It is because of this function of Chlorine that it is a bad idea to put raw tapwater into your tank!

Chloramines (there are a few different types) also have this effect, but are (1) less efficient, (2) more stable.

Chlorine also has the potential to form other organic compounds that are toxic, if it comes into contact with the right things. Chloramines don't, because of their higher stability.

Some water companies either add Ammonia to water containing Chlorine (i.e. their treated water) to produce Chloramine (to reduce the risk of the Chlorine forming other toxic organics), or add Chloramines directly as a supplementary treatment to Chlorination.

If you ring your water copmany and speak to the right department (ask for the department that can give you a breakdown of the chemicals in your water), and they will be able to tell you whether they do either of the above, or whether your water is Choramine free.

They will also be able to post you a detailed analysis of your water supply, which you may find interesting if you are that way inclined!

 

[Squid]

Jules H-T

Thats great info.! I was comfortable with what the chlorine was all about, but the chloramine stuff was baffling me a bit.. thanks very much..

So that leaves the AMMO lock .. and its effectiveness if anyone knows..

Squid

 

[Squid]

BTW..i just emailed southeast water to see what they do about chloramine.. so thanks for that..

Cheers
Squid

 

[Die_Grinder]

my guess is that it converts the ammonia into amonium, as its not toxic to fish, but in high heat the reactionis reversed.

 

[Jules H-T]

No worries Squid.

my guess is that it converts the ammonia into amonium, as its not toxic to fish, but in high heat the reactionis reversed.

Nope, it converts Chlorine molecules and ammonia to water and Chloramines, ala

NH3+HOCl=H20+NH2Cl

 

[Tolak]

Cloramine is basically a combination of chlorine & ammonia. As has been stated it is more stable than chlorine.

Most dechlorinators contain sodium thiosulfate to neutralize chlorine & break the chlorine/ammonia bond in chloramine, sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate to bind the ammonia into a form that is non-toxic to fish but still available to the bio filtration as ammonia, and ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid, or EDTA, to lock up any heavy metals into a form that is harmless to fish. These are mixed with distilled water to make dechlorinator. Depending on how strong or weak a solution is mixed will affect how well the dechlorinator works.

http/www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/cl.html has a good series on how dechlorinators work.

http/www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/rev-cond.htm has some comparisons of water conditioners.

 

[Jules H-T]

That second article is very interesting to me indeed Tolak, cheers for that.

I have been involved in discussions here regarding the point of using conditioners. Chlorine is removed from water by evaporation, by leaving it for 24 hours. I personally live in a chloramine free area. Heavy metals weren't, but now as a result of debates in the past are, an issue to me and the only reason I would use these products.

The points that stand out for me are;

If you also live in a chloramine free area, using API Ammo Lock, Kent Ammonia Detox, Kordon Amquel, Marineland Biosafe, Seachem AmGuard, and Wardley look to me like a bit of a waste of time and money.

You're treating Chlorine that can be evaporated off by 24 hrs standing, chloramines that aren't there, and you're not treating the heavy metals in your water. Obviously there will be scenarios where these are still useful- you don't have the space to let water stand, the volumes you're changing are too large to make it feasible, or you have a leak and need to do an emergency top up.

However the point remains that you might consider switching to a product that is more suited to your water (i.e. one that binds heavy metals but doesn't add chemicals pointlessly treating Chloramine that isn't there).

If you live in a Chloraminated area, using API Tap Water Conditioner, Kent Chlorinex, Kent Pro Tech Coat Freshwater, and Seachem ChlorGuard (plus really Hagen/Nutrafin Aquaplus, Kordon Novaqua, Wardley, and Waterlife Haloex), seem inappropriate. This is because they treat Chlorine that you can evaporate, heavy metals which is great, but it ignores the Chloramines in your water. Again, there may be more appropriate products for you.

So what everyone should be doing is finding out whether their water supply is chloraminated or not, and selectively choosing their conditioner rather than blindly following a brand name.

I'm a big fan of not adding chemicals to my tank unless absolutely necessary, on principle. What would be of great interest to me personally therefore is a product that's sole function is to bind heavy metals. Does anyone have any recommendations?

 

[Squid]

So what everyone should be doing is finding out whether their water supply is chloraminated or not, and selectively choosing their conditioner rather than blindly following a brand name.

I'm a big fan of not adding chemicals to my tank unless absolutely necessary, on principle. What would be of great interest to me personally therefore is a product that's sole function is to bind heavy metals. Does anyone have any recommendations?

You've hit the nail on the head.. I have had a couple of odd water chemistry problems recently, and so wanted to know more about what was going into the tank, and what i should be doing to minimise any impacts created by the addition of my local water. Its a new tank, so i may just be having "new tank" problems, but there has to bea reason for them.. One of the guys at my local LFS recommended this product and was asking if i had a chloramine issue.. I didnt have a clue.

I currently use tetra aquasafe, but i cant remember if this does anything about chloramine.?? anyone.? EDIT: just looked at the link.. it does.. !

SO.. thanks for all of this information everyone.. very useful.. I await the reply from my water provider too, with the information on my water supply..


Squid

P.S. for thames water people.. there is this on their site.. http/www.thameswateruk.co.uk/en_gb/Downl...L_AND_COVER.pdf

 

[Jules H-T]

In order to enable people to make an informed decison, I have made contact with all 23 water companies in the UK to find out if there are Chloramines in their supplies.

As soon as I have a response from all of them, I will post the results.

 

[Themuleous]

Interesting report Sqid especially P5 (as numbered on the report) re nitirite, worth London people in knowing about.

Also seems you live in a 'soft' water area, how 'soft' do they take you?

Sam

 

[xXMrBonesXx]

i've read that ammo lock is the only thing that works for ammonia and that most dechlorinators only take out chlorine, they only take out chloramine if they are heavily overdosed

that's just what i've read though, don't know if there's any truth to it

 

[Squid]

Interesting report Sqid especially P5 (as numbered on the report) re nitirite, worth London people in knowing about.

Also seems you live in a 'soft' water area, how 'soft' do they take you?

Sam

I cant remember which i am.. so i have looked at that, and am waiting to hear back from south east water..

i must be south east water.. we have hard water.. (now doubting myself)

Squid