Algae

[killudead]

I have those little green dots all over the place on my tank, that brown looking hair algae, and that green slimy algae.

This is my setup
I have regular gravel mixed with some florite(sp)
I have 2x 20W Coralife 50/50 bulbs (I think this might be part of the problem) to much blue light
the hood is a stock hood with the screw in bulbs, Max 25w each
I have been playing around with the setup for some time, and i realize that changes occur over time, not overnight.
The tank is 4 months old.

I have the following fish
1 betta
3 black tetras
1 cory cat
1 oto
1 bumble gombi
2 platys ( my little poop machines)

and a few snails, thanks LFS

all in a 10 gal.

I have 1 of those betta bulbs
some grass looking plant that I got from petco.
I have one of those aquaclear powerheads. It has the "3" stage filter system.. lol
11 money wart plants (they reach about halfway in the tank.
I had some java moss on some rocks, but i took that out tonight cause it was loaded with the crap.

I also dose one time week with like a half capfull
with something called plant grow.
it has the following
boron .0005
nitrogen .15
copper - .0005
iron .26
Manganese .05
Molybdenum .0007
zinc - .003

per the directions
1 capful per 10 gallons and monitor iron lvls

as of now, i have some small patches of the diatoms, (the little green dots) and some of the leaves on my plants have some brown stuff on them. this would be the start of my hair algae.

I need some guidance.
I test my water all the time,
everything read good but i have a hardwater, around the 150 range
and my ph is around 6.4
I have Co2 injection using a diffuser that sits underneath the powerhead for max infussion.
the Co2 system is a 2 2L bottles (rotated every other week)
if you need any more info, let me know.
but any help is appreciated. Maybe i am being to eager about it, I have read many many forums about plants. I am still playing my learning curve.

 

[SuperColey1]

Do you have 40W and the 25W screw ins?

Don't worry about the 50/50 lights. Its light that plants require and it doesn't matter too much what colour it is. Change the bulbs if you want it to look better though!!!

The bluegreen slime (Cyanobacteria) in your tank is probably due to a dirty substrate/filter in your case. What colour is your drop checker for CO2?

The fertiliser you state is a trace only one and therefore you could do with adding some NPK to the tank.

The little green dots are probably due to the Phosphates (P) being too low.

The brown stuff I assume is Rhizoclonium which can be down to either poor CO2, low nutrients or both.

Take a look at the following website and see if you can recognise any of the algaes/bacterias and/or any plant defficiencies:
[URL="http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm"]http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm[/URL]

If you have 40W over a 10USG then it isn't as bad a problem as having 80W over a 20USG. Could still be a factor but I wouldn't worry too much about the light. Will definately need proper dosing though and not just the OTS trace fertiliser you are using. Allied with good CO2 (You need to monitor your DC if you have one) there shouldn't be too many probelms once you dose properly.

With the bulbs I would change them....not because they are wrong for plants as plants adapt to whatever light is available. because it won't be making your tank look too good. Get the rest of the setup sorted out first though and then correct the lights to a colour combo that looks good to your eyes once everything else sorts itself out

AC

 

[killudead]

Nope they rated at 20W
but i have 2 of them
see here - Ebay Coralife bulbs

I do not have a drop checker yet. But i probably should. The tank is so small, i dont want to crowd it to much..
but if thats what i gotta do..
NPK.. what is that.

See i thought the green dots were due to excessive phosphates/silica in the water.

no blue green algae
I would call it hair algae or Oedogonium.
Either way, I need to OD the plants with nutrients and monitor Co2 lvls.
I will try to get some pics if I can tonight and post them up for reference.


Hair, Thread, Fuzz, etc
Highslide JS Highslide JS
Description These are very general names for a wide variety of filamentous algae. Generally green and varying in length. I have listed some of the more popular filamentous algae under their own section on this page.
Cause A range of causes including low CO2, low nutrient levels and ammonia spikes. Nothing to do with excess iron as commonly thought.
Removal Can be very difficult to eradicate at times. A high plant mass with good CO2 and a good supply of nutrients along with constantly hassling the algae seems to pay off after a while. Removal by twisting around a toothbrush or similar. Overdosing Flourish Excel can help. Amano shrimps, Rosy barbs and mollies will often eat it.

Thanks for your input

 

[SuperColey1]

N = Nitrogen
P = Phosphate
K = Potassium

Your fert has a very low amount of N in it but no phosphate or Potassium. Plants need high quantities of these and much less of the trace elements (the metals in the fert)

A lot of off the shelf ferts pander to the old fashioned belief that excess N&P cause algae which is untrue. However they sell more by pandering to these beliefs so they continue. There are many cases of 'merchandising hype' within the aquarium retailers because it sells premium priced products like 'full spectrum lamps' and 'heated substrate cables'.

What you need is to add NPK and then use your fert as trace. This will fulfil the plants nutrient needs

CO2 via DIY should be fine on your size tank so I can only assume that it is the low nutrients that are causing the problems.

Don't believe the stories from old world planters or LFS that excess nutrients cause algae!! algae feed from the same elements as plants and need much less but one look at any planted scape will tell you that something is amiss this theory when people can produce great planted scapes with virtually zero algae. If the plants grow well then algae doesn't no matter the excess of nutrient left over. A quick browse of reputable planted forums such as barrreport.com or UKaps (There are a lot more but I won't list them all) will also show that this theory is incorrect.

Have a read up of the EI article at the pinned at the top of the planted section which should be quite well suited to your setup and should work wonders.

AC

 

[xmurdererx]

if it isnt coming of o get a pleco and within a day it will be gone

 

[killudead]

I want to get a CAE, but fear that i am at the limit or over for my size tank.
All my fish are small 1" or so except the platys, betta and my cory cat
I have also added a second power head filter for water clarity. the water is now crystal clear.

 

[SuperColey1]

I wouldn't put any pleco in your size tank. lol. I used to have 4 of the smallest (pitbul plec - Parotocinclus Jumbo) which only get to 3" in mine but they need to be in groups and that would max your tank out with no other fish allowed. lol

Plecs wouldn't touch the Cyno/blue green anyway!!!

CAE would eat the other fish once it got a little larger. You mean SAE for algae anyway.

Shrimp could be good though!!

Even if you were to get a larger tank and could get some small plecs I think its more important you get the root cause sorted out rather than just reacting to the current problem. If you clear the root causes then it means less time dealing with problems and more time to do the good things.

AC

 

[killudead]

i have a stupid newb question. where can i get some the of the NPK stuff? LFS or is it more plant specific like a nursery

 

[SuperColey1]

This is the US one I know, there may be others but when you buy powders to make up your ferts then you are buying quantities that will last a year, 2 3 etc. Works out at about 1/50th of the price of an off the shelf fert, and lets you control what you put in too.

http/www.aquariumfertilizer.com/Store.php

If going by EI then you will need the following:
Potassium Nitrate (supplies K,N)
Potassium Phosphate (supplies K,P)

I would buy your trace elements now but use up your fert first then make a mix of the trace to continue with. will save shipping in the long run
Trace is called CSM+B on this site

Finally dependent on your water you may want to buy Magnesium Sulphate and Potassium Sulphate.

As I say I bought my last bags of ferts about 2 years ago and they are still going. Much cheaper than 3 off the shelf ferts a year!!!

Have a read through the EI method and then any questions don't hesitate to ask.

AC

 

[killudead]

wow, I will be a chemist by the time i am done. I will look into it.
Maybe I need more plants?
Seems like after I added a capfull of the fert I do have, the algae took off and grew like a mad man. I will take some video tonight and put it up on you tube for you to see what my tank actually looks like. I might think it is worse than it really is. The part that I cant take is the crap growing on my moneywart leaves...

could i use flourish excel?
http/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumap...rid-all-my.html

 

[SuperColey1]

WOW thats an old thread you've brought up there

The gist of the story on that thread is the following:
Flourish Excel was intended to be a carbon additive that people can use instead of pressurised. It is ideal for small tanks but can be very expensive on larger tanks therefore is ideal for you.
It also helps converts iron into a usable form for the plants.

When people used it to excess they discovered that it was killing algae. This was intended when Seachem made the product but is in fact a side effect. Not a bad side effect.

What I would say though is that whilst it can be used to keep the algae at bay, it is much better to use it to kill off the algae now and then try and get to the root cause of the algae. Much better to avoid having to use something than just settle for the middle ground.

When they use it to kill algae they overdose it which can be harmful to some inhabitants!!! It can also kill off certain plants like Riccia and Vallisineria.

In summary, use it as a carbon additive at the stated dose and it will eventually kill off the algae. Continue to use it at the recommended level as you source of C. At the same time sort out the fert dosing and the whole combination should give you more pleasure as you will know that you are algae free from your own work and not 'faking' ot.

You can use it to kill the algae by O/D if you wish but it will come back and you will have to keep dosing.

A good dose for your tank would be 1ml daily which if you buy a 500ml bottle would last for over a year. Once you get heavily planted you could increase to 1.5-2ml daily.

AC